The Slick Road did not cause your wreck!

"Your argument is moot until we know where you live? You keep saying that EVERYONE should be using chains in snow...which is totally bogus."

I’m not trying to hide where I live (notice the very legible Washington State license plate on the picture of my car), I just don’t think it has any relevance. But, since you do, I live near Seattle.

But more importantly, I never once said “EVERYONE should be using chains in snow”. I haven’t even said anything close to this, so why do you insist that I have? In fact, I mentioned more than once that chains weren’t always necessary in snow. And, I have tried really hard, more than once, to describe when chains are most useful - compact snow and ice.

I think the first video I posted is a better video, but I guess it wasn’t from the Seattle area like I thought. So, to show drivers sometimes “need” chains in Seattle, here is a very similar video that is definitely from Seattle. Yes, it would be better if these people just didn’t drive in these conditions. But people are always going to try to get home, or finish doing their job, or whatever. So, given the fact that people are always going to try to drive, I would suggest you have an unusual definition of “need” if you don’t think the drivers in both of the videos didn’t need chains.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=seattle%20snow&sm=3

"Still haven't told us where you live to explain the NEED for chains in snow. Still waiting."

Sorry, if I knew you were waiting so anxiously, I would have replied to you first.

I'm not trying to hide where I live (notice the very legible Washington State license plate on the picture of my car), I just don't think it has any relevance

Sure it is…it’s very relevant.

Either
#1 You live in the Mountains. Where 99% of the US population DON’T live. Which means your argument for tire chains is limited to the 1% who do live in the mountains.

#2 You don’t live in the Mountains. The non-mountains of Washington State does NOT get a lot of snow…Less then 1 third of the snow falls I grew up in. If you think you NEED chains to drive in those conditions…then you really need to learn how to drive in snow. Go to Upstate NY one winter between Syracuse and Watertown…Better yet…the Tug-Hill Plateau. Count the number of vehicles that have chains. You’ll have a very hard time finding any. If you NEED chains to get around in the non-mountainous area in Washington…then you won’t even be able to move in this area of the country.

So, to show drivers sometimes "need" chains in Seattle, here is a very similar video that is definitely from Seattle.

SEATTLE?? Really???

Seattle averages less then 12" of snow a year. That tells me you don’t have anywhere near the amount of snow driving experience.

The town I grew up in averages almost more then 20 times the amount of snow Seattle gets. Actually closer to 30 times more. They don’t even close schools for a 12" snow storm. I can’t tell you how many 30"+ snow storms I’ve driven in. Not to mention the 60"+ storms…where snow if falling 5" an hour and the plows are having a very very hard time keeping up.

Below - this is more snow in one storm Parish NY received then Seattle did all last DECADE.

http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-blogs/weathermatrix/100-inches-snow-1/6833

I only WISH I needed chains about now !
– SEND SOME OF THAT SNOW OUT MY WAY PLEASE-- ( both hands megaphone cupped around mouth , facing east. )
Four corners New Mexico is in drought conditions and if they have too much snow back east…send it our way.

Four corners New Mexico is in drought conditions and if they have too much snow back east...send it our way.

Back in the late 70’s upstate NY we had so much snow in Syracuse that the city had no place to dump the snow. So they put it in boxcars and sent it out west. They repeated that several times a year. I think that was the year our town got over 400" of snow…and Syracuse received over 200".

I dunno, two inches of snow and they’re sliding all over?? Something wrong then unless its glare ice underneath which I doubt. Wheels locked, turned the wrong way, etc. I don’t know if chains would help them but guess it wouldn’t hurt, but that’s not my definition of snowy driving.

Anyone sliding all over in two inches of snow lacks proper tires, proper technique, or both. Chains are a poor solution for either.

Some of the drivers in Los Angeles are so pathetic, if it rains they can’t handle it

And I’ll assume many of those bozo drives have bald tires and streaking wiper blades

Jeeze, db, there’s no reason to insult them. Many of them just don’t have experience in snowy conditions, and many of the cars aren’t equipped with the proper tires… cause snow is so rare.

Right now the south including parts of Luisiana, Georgia, upper Florida, and the Carolinas are shutting down because they’re getting snow and ice and they lack the proper equipment to plow and treat the roads, the cars are equipped with summer tires, and the drivers lack the skills. They don’t even have ice scrapers to clear their windshields. They’re having all kinds of problems with this winters weird weather. They’re not bozos and they’re not pathetic, they just aren’t used to it or prepared for it.

During icy conditions, a vehicle can slide forever no matter the tire type and the speed involved.
I got caught in a bad ice storm (about 1.5 inches) while leaving Ponca City, OK one night and was doing right about 10 MPH on a divided 4-lane in an AWD Subaru.
Seeing flashing lights from a ditched car in the median ahead I let off the throttle and the car instantly went sideways. The Subaru slid for more than half a block sideways before pulling a bank shot off of a TV station van that was sitting on the side of the road and sending me into the ditch.

The Subaru pulled itself out of the ditch just fine; the pavement was a whole different ball game.

While I was sliding sideways and after finding no control at all, I just sat back, folded my arms, and waited for the inevitable. The TV guy jumped out of the way at the last minute and I never even made the news for my trouble…

The point could be made that maybe I should have been going 5 MPH instead of 10 but odds are the car would have gone sideways even at that speed.

Been there, done that.
That’s why I don’t like the name calling.

mountainbike

I live in Los Angeles, so I’m “criticizing” my neighbors, so to speak

It snowed in Germany when I lived there. And it also snowed in Pennsylvania when I lived there. So, fortunately, I have some experience driving in the snow and ice

I clearly remember having one set of summer tires and one set of winter tires. I never had chains, though

I’m sorry, but there is no excuse whatsoever for not being able to handle a little rain. And, for the record, it doesn’t even rain that much here. But when it does, it always seems to be a disaster

I’ve driven in deep snow…light snow…ice…glare ice…freezing rain…more snow…

It’s rare (but it does happen) that I can’t safely drive. The key is to SLOW down. My ONE snowy accident was on I-81 just north of Syracuse. I came around a bend and I had less then 100’ between me and the 20 or so cars already piled up on this snowy stretch of road. Luckily I was only going about 30…but it still wasn’t slow enough. I slowed down a little…but not able to stop.

Here in New England I see accidents in the snow all the time. Especially when the first snow of the year. People forget how to drive in the snow. It’s not that difficult to remember. First snow storm this year I was driving back from work. I think I passed 10+ cars off the road or in an accident for the 20 mile stretch. The conditions were NOT that bad. I remember years ago one idiot passed me on I-495 during a snow-storm going at least 20mph faster then I was. 2 miles down the road he was on top of the guard rail. I was about to pull over…but then I saw the cop car coming up with his blue lights on and stopping.

here in Los Angeles, when it rains, many drivers do one of two things

Drive too fast for the conditions, because they don’t realize they have less traction

Drive 15mph on the freeway, and slow everybody down excessively. We don’t get enough rain here to warrant 15mph on the freeway

I’ve been watching whats going on in Atlanta. Just no traction at all. Wheels just spin regardless. Are you saying these are from summer tires? I thought everyone bought all season radials as a standard tire. So a summer tire is like a performance tire or something? Just curious. I mean I have had situations where it is very slick and barely hitting the gas will spin the tire, but always managed to at least get going.

I mean I have had situations where it is very slick and barely hitting the gas will spin the tire, but always managed to at least get going.

Back in early January we had a nice ice storm. My driveway as pure ice. I had to drive to Lowes to get some ice-melt. Driveway is a little incline getting out. The only way to get traction was to just take my foot off the gas and brake and just let it coast up until I got a little traction…then I was able to give it a little gas.

@

the same mountainbike
January 28
Anyone sliding all over in two inches of snow lacks proper tires, proper technique, or both. Chains are a poor solution for either.

They probably weren’t driving on “two inches of snow”, they were most likely driving on sleet that melted and then re-froze as the temperatures dropped. That’s a typical southern winter storm.
My sister now lives in Canada and she tells me that when they get conditions like that, it’s mayhem on the streets, wrecks everywhere.

A lot is bad,sometimes a little can be worse(because people ignore it) one time we got rained out in the woods(clearing right of way or something) we started home in the glaze ice-the cat driving had me petrified,he was running 35 or so mph in the ice with an old Ford ton truck(2wd) we made it somehow,but I guess the Lord watches over some folks.My worst problems in the ice oft times is the other Folks getting messed up and blocking the road or driving so slow I lose traction,then I occasionally get carried away,anyway nowadays I stay home if possible.No name calling please,most people honestly dont know how to cope-Kevin

all-season tires make pretty poor winter tires

If the conditions warrant it, nothing less than true winter tires will do

For all practical purposes, all season tires ARE summer tires

It looks like some folks in Georgia are going to be in trouble come election time, particularly the Atlanta mayor. Sleeping in Home Depot, baby delivered on the highway, kids stuck on the buses or in school with no food, wow. A little pre-planning, pre-treating, closing the schools in anticipation, can go a long way. Some people complained when Minnesota shut the schools down but its better to be a little cautious than having thousands stranded. Of course its the National Weather Services fault for not pin pointing exactly where the sleet would hit-yeah right.