Db, perhaps I overreacted. Name calling is just a pet peeve of mine.
I’ve been driving, commuting even, in all kinds of weather with all season tires for many years. I’ll be the first to say that they’re not as good on bad roads as winter tires, but with proper technique they do fine. They are not as good on bad roads as winter tires, but they are MUCH better than summer tires.
However, not being a skier, if I lived in LA I’d have summer tires on my car. My son lives just outside of LA, but he heads north to the mountains to ski, so he has all season tires with chains for use when appropriate…and he has an AWD Audi. Me, I avoid snow. I’d be happy if I never saw snow again. I suppose it’s odd that he lives in southern Cal and I live in NH, but life’s funny that way.
All-Season are NOT the same as summer tires. There is a difference. Good all-season tires on a FWD vehicle is more then adequate for most parts of the country (including MA and NH). You have to get into the Mountains area or places like upstate NY to really need dedicated snow tires on a FWD vehicle. RWD vehicles still need good snow tires.
“Good all-season tires on a FWD vehicle is more then adequate for most parts of the country”
That is true, but…how many people really know the winter ability of their all-season tires until they are actually driving in the slippery stuff? Do they take the word of the guy in the tire store who may just be trying to move rubber and to make a sale of the tires that his boss wants to get cleared out of their inventory?
You & I are likely to research the winter capability of a tire (via Tire Rack or other source) before buying, but most people do not. Instead, they take the advice of the guy in the tire store, who may know what he is talking about, or may not know–or care–about the tires that he is pushing that week.
And, when one buys a new car, it is rare that you have a choice regarding the rubber. I found out the hard way that the so-called “all-season” Bridgestone Potenza RE-92 tires on my 2002 Outback were treacherous on a winter road surface. Similarly, a friend of mine bought a new Maxima in 1991, and the Yokohama “all-season” tires on his car were so bad that he couldn’t even get the car to move on a snowy road surface.
My point is that–unfortunately–there is absolutely no standard for what constitutes an all-season tire, and as a result, some are…adequate…on winter roads, and others are essentially useless. And, until the snow flies, most folks won’t know what those tires are capable of doing. So…when you say that “all-season” tires are fine on snow, you may be correct, or you may be wrong, depending on the variables from brand/model to brand/model
Saying that “good” all-season tires are okay on winter roads is like saying that “good” people make good parents. After careers in both education and in child protection, I know that parenting ability varies considerably, just like all-season tires.
I wish you guys would distinguish between snow tires and winter tires. If I lived in the Great White North, I’d err on the side of caution and not rely on so-called “all season” tires in the winter.
Nobody here would dare suggest winter tires don’t perform better in all winter conditions than so-called “all season” tires. Whether the roads are plowed, covered in snow, or covered with ice, winter tires give you better traction in winter conditions than so-called “all season” tires.
I’ve posted video proof before, and I’m happy to do it again, if necessary.
VDC, I had those as OE tires on my car, and I discovered they were generally considered terrible on bad roads. My own experience confirmed their reputation.
Interesting post about there being no requirement for a tire to be rated “all season”. I tried going to the NHTSA page to look up the UTQG standards, and was surprised to find you are absolutely correct. That came out wrong. I didn’t mean to imply that it was because it was you saying it, I just thought there must be standards for this rating.
I can count the number of days on one hand that in Southern NH and Northern MA I’m driving on anything but dry or wet (not freezing) roads. While we do get snow (about 40"/yr)…It’s not that frequent…and with snow plows and salt/sand the roads clear up usually the next day.
Upstate NY around Lake Erie and Lake Ontario…Completely different story. Between the 120" - 400" of snow every year…and the completely unpredictability of the lake effect snow.
This thread has made me realize The Lovely State of Indiana needs vehicle inspections, Anything goes here, you will not get pulled over for a tail light being out, cracked windshield ect…
The cars I see on the road here sometimes are nothing short of amazing. If you walk thru a parking lot its not uncommon to see vehicles with bald tires. mismatched tires, doughnut spares that are bald ect…
My all time favorite was a early 90’s cavilier driving down the road with no drivers door. The seat belt was built into the door so the yokel driving it ratchet strapped himself to the seat. Where did the door go? It had a passenger door, but no drivers door.
The state of California also desperately needs vehicle inspections
Unfortunately, I think a huge percentage of vehicles would immediately fail
Since there are so many working poor guys here, I suspect many of them couldn’t afford to keep their vehicles in good enough condition to pass a safety inspection
The number of blowouts is nothing short of amazing. Safety inspections could have prevented many of them, as the inspector would have failed those cars due to the tires
It’s also amazing how many vehicles that were mangled in wrecks keep on driving, because their registration and insurance is still up to date. Mind you, some of these cars were t-boned, or smacked so hard that they no longer have a trunk . . .
One time, I even saw a VW bus driving with a log for a front bumper
It's also amazing how many vehicles that were mangled in wrecks keep on driving, because their registration and insurance is still up to date. Mind you, some of these cars were t-boned, or smacked so hard that they no longer have a trunk . . .
The f150 that hit my culvert and cracked it is back on the road. They are driving it just like it was, only “fix” is plastic on the passenger window. The truck was insured, the driver of the truck was not the owner and had a suspended drivers license due to duis.
The driver received no ticket, was released at the scene. He is still tooling around in the smashed up truck. Indiana for you… Hopefully next time he wrecks he won’t kill someone. If he does there will be blood on the Police officers hands that didn’t issue him a citation or take him to jail. I have everything well documented and hope I never have to bring my evidence to light.
The lawlessness around here still amazes me sometimes.
Anyway, My insurance paid me minus my deductible and Is going to try to go after the owners insurance company. The owners insurance company said they will not return phone calls and cannot get a hold of the owner. They said if the owner will not return their calls they can cancel their policy and I will get no money from their insurance company, and neither will my insurance which can make my rates go up.
Im not sure how an insurance company can cancel someone before a crash happens, after the fact… If they told me they would not cover it because the driver was unlicensed I would understand and then someone would need to go after the owner for the money.
The owner of the truck has a house in town, and if I have to I will try to get a settlement against them and hire a lawyer to put a lien on her house.
I truly hate living here in the armpit of America. I know LA is not perfect, but at least you have great weather.
Since there are so many working poor guys here, I suspect many of them couldn't afford to keep their vehicles in good enough condition to pass a safety inspection
We have a lot of working poor here as well. I feel bad for many of them, but then you have a billy bad a%% that has a 8 mpg jacked up truck, with worn out everything, and he drives it 30 miles each way to work. Theres money for gas, booze, smokes and weed, but no money for their kids or vehicle maintenance. Buy a cheaper vehicle!
Los Angeles isnt’ all that, either, if you’re not pulling down some serious cash, and I’m not
We might have great weather here, but there are serious tradeoffs
Unless you’re making serious money, there’s a good chance you’ll be stuck in a neighborhood with the gangsters. Pawnshops, liquor stores, payday loans, car title loans on every 3rd or 4th corner. What’s not to like?
So that guy that messed up your property didn’t get into any kind of trouble whatsoever?
How can they let him drive with that suspended license?
Maybe they should deport him to Canada, along with Justin Bieber . . .
LOL
You’re very smart to contact a lawyer at this point. Somebody’s got to make you whole, so to speak
"The Lovely State of Indiana needs vehicle inspections, Anything goes here, you will not get pulled over for a tail light being out, cracked windshield ect..."
Indiana isn’t the only state, Rick.
NJ used to have an effective motor vehicle inspection system, but our current governor eliminated it. Of course, he maintained the same level of compensation for the privatized inspection company that now checks only emissions. Now, on a daily basis on our very congested highways, you can see rolling wrecks that are clearly endangering others by virtue of their visible defects. God only knows how many defects are not visible to the naked eye.
I would write to our esteemed governor to request that he reinstate MV safety inspections, but he is now embroiled in–at last count–at least 5 major scandals, two of which involve misuse of federal funds, so I doubt if he would pay much attention to my letter.
I wonder…do they make orange prison jump suits in size 56 Extra Portly?
If not, they will soon need to do so.
I can’t believe there are people arguing AGAINST the use of tire chains. And the whole thing about staying home when the weather is bad - glad that works for some of you - but for the rest of us, we have no choice.
Before I’m told again that 4WD/AWD/tire chains are only needed for people that can’t drive, I’d like to see some of you guys come to TN/GA/AL right now with the type of car and tires most people here drive (which I may add are perfectly acceptable every other winter) and see how far you get. Many of these people had cars/ tires that were even acceptable when people were driving to work with NO SNOW in the forecast. Imagine their surprise when they tried to drive home. The counties/cities are simply not equipped to plow/salt the roads in a timely manner, and even when they do Italy be days before back roads are plowed. I don’t totally disagree with what was said - I definitely think many people can’t drive and shouldn’t be allowed to.
And I just don’t get how some people can discourage tire chains yet say winter tires are a must.
As for the whole vehicle inspection thing - I say get rid of them. Around here there is an inspection, but you should see some of the stuff on the roads. I say They’re gonna drive anyway, so I’d rather not have to pay for an inspection on my car when I know it’s perfectly safe (verified by a mechanic and recent passed inspection). It’s just another tax.
And for the guy that can count on one hand the number if times he’s driving on roads other than dry or wet (not frozen) roads - good for you. Now come down to TN, where is snows, thaws enough to get the roads wet and refreezes before night before repeating the cycle the next day. Our roads are often frozen over in the winter, not just dry or wet. Look at I65 in AL.
My son tells me there are places in the northern California mountains where chains are mandatory. I’ve never lived there, so my knowledge of this is sketchy.
So that guy that messed up your property didn't get into any kind of trouble whatsoever?
How can they let him drive with that suspended license?
Maybe they should deport him to Canada, along with Justin Bieber . . .
LOL
You’re very smart to contact a lawyer at this point. Somebody’s got to make you whole, so to speak
He got no ticket for the wreck, I couldn’t believe it when I read the police report. They just let him go, that’s the way it works here.
I see the truck driving around and its in bad shape, I am 99% sure its the same unlicensed driver driving it, It absolutely amazes me, he won’t get pulled over It just doesn’t happen here. I have notified the police, they are keeping an “eye out” for him, they told me they can not pull over a person for no reason just because I say they don’t have a license, I asked if they could pull him over for an equipment violation for which the truck has several, which they said they will. Its been a month now and hes still driving it.
State farm has paid me minus my deductible which is 1000 bucks, The section of pipe that is damaged costs 2950 delivered to my door, plus 7-8 ft of excavation to remove it. Its a 5 foot in diameter 40 ft long culvert, It cost me 8500 bucks 2 years ago, it had a warranty on the pipe which is now void due to the crash.
Anyway, its up to state farm to get their money from the owners insurance company which they hadn’t taken the first step yet. They will also try to get my 1000 dollar deductable but its not looking good. If state farm cannot recoup their money from their insurance my rates may go up. So basically if you don’t have insurance around here its ok, someone else will pay for it.
I'd like to see some of you guys come to TN/GA/AL right now with the type of car and tires most people here drive
I talked with my brother-in-law who lives near Atlanta. He drove to work…many roads were blocked…he had to find alternate routes and pass many stranded cars. After work he had to drive a co-workers car out of the parking lot because he couldn’t make it up the 2% grade. Then he walked back down the small hill and drove himself home. Brother-in-law grew up in Upstate NY where snow is common.
I think it has more to do with people not knowing how to drive in snow. My brother-in-law had no problem getting around with his Corolla and all-season tires.
I can't believe there are people arguing AGAINST the use of tire chains. And the whole thing about staying home when the weather is bad - glad that works for some of you - but for the rest of us, we have no choice.
No one is against tire chains. They have their place. But I’ve NEVER EVER needed them in my 40+ years of driving in the North East. My personal opinion is - if you need chains outside of areas like the Rockies…or The Tug Hill Plateau in upstate NY…then you need to learn how to drive in snow first.
My apologies Mike. I misinterpreted various earlier posts as people against the use of chains. I guess everyone’s definition of need is different as well - I’ve never ‘needed’ tire chains to get anywhere, even though I drive a RWD sedan with all season tires. There are definitely times I’d have been glad to have some though.
I do think the usefulness of chains is very limited here, but I would go as far as to say they could be needed by some of the folks that live in more rural areas. Not to drive on most roads, but up steep driveways and select few back roads that sometimes become impassible much faster than the highways and are plowed last.
And I totally agree that most people can’t drive safely in the snow. I’d go as far as to say many can’t drive safely in the rain either. It doesn’t help that most schools have eliminated drivers ed, and the ones that do only have minimal if any training on snow/ice.
It was interesting that the Georgia Governor said a lot of the problem was semis that could not get up the icy grade and blocked everything up. (Of course I saw a lot of cars with the wheels just spinning too.) At any rate he thought that maybe there would be times that chains on trucks would be mandatory, like in the mountains. Of course if its bad in Atlanta, its probably bad in Chattanooga where you’d need at least chains through the hills. A lot of the trucks that run west have chains hanging on the back of the cab just in case.
I think though that part of it was they dropped the ball by poor weather information, coordination, and then not pre-treating, and then just not getting in gear fast enough. So he’s trying to justify his actions. I think the mayor though really looked bad and can’t believe he’d make it in another election again.