The Slick Road did not cause your wreck!


#1

I see it all the time, on the news, in the paper. Slick roads cause multiple crashes. The road caused you to crash, its the roads fault. Finally I got a breath of fresh air yesterday via the Indiana State Police Email alerts.

From the Indiana State Police-

""All roads are snow packed, icy with blowing and drifting snow. Numerous slide-offs and crashes have occurred on I-65 and I-74 not due to road conditions but for drivers not adjusting their speed for conditions of the roadway.

Remember, road conditions don’t cause crashes, speed to fast for the conditions of the roadway cause crashes. Slow down and get to your destination safely. Give yourself plenty of time and be diligent to conditions of the roads.""

THANK YOU Indiana State Police! There is common sense out there still.

They are 100% right. If you slow down and pay attention you will not crash. I seen three crashed personally yesterday due to people speeding on slick roads. Why we think we have to go the speed limit at all times, no matter what is beyond me. Some drivers were still going above the speed limit yesterday in the slick conditions.

There was one point yesterday I was going 25mph in a 50mph zone on a 4 lane state highway while driving a bucket truck. The roads were very icy, most people blew by me, one in particular was a ford explorer. Two miles up the road it was tangled up with another car, I stand by slow driving on ice covered roads in a commercial vehicle or any vehicle for that matter.


#2

I’m shocked!


#3

Easy to be self-righteous and moralistic about it in the obvious cases. But I’ve had some fairly random and unexpected encounters with black ice…


#4

@cigroller

I am not being self righteous or moralistic… If the road is a sheet of ice, which the roads and interstates around here were, SLOW DOWN. Its that simple. We were not talking about random black ice here, the whole road was icy. Everywhere. This isn’t south Florida…


#5

An insurance company asked my just yesterday if the accident caused the spill that soaked the control face panel short circuiting all the hvac and audio.
I said ‘‘NO’’…

‘‘some dipwad dumb enough to attempt to drive with an open cup of orange juice caused the short circuit.’’


#6

@ken green

??? What happened? Are you ok Ken?


#7

I’m calling self-righteous and moralistic on any such statements. What it does is pass judgment on all sorts of things without real knowledge of them.

Slow down during poor conditions? Of course. In any and all cases, even there in Indiana was every mishap a simple case of people not driving appropriately? Probably not.

I would also mention that I don’t know why the statement from the cops is notable. I hear this from the various police forces every single time there is winter weather.


#8

Yes , it’s just me as a parts guy playing C.S.I. on a customer’s car , ‘11 Ford Flex.
They cleaned the face real nicely and tried to tell the insurance that the wreck shorted out the controls.
My tech brings me the face panel / control assembly and I take off the controls from the inside.
and…Voila’ …spill residue over every inch and down into the buttons.

( I don’t yet know if they paid the additional on the claim or charged the customer. )

I’ve played C.S.I. a lot around here. Even the police come and ask “What vehicle is this piece from ?”


#9

@cigroller

Slow down during poor conditions? Of course. In any and all cases, even there in Indiana was every mishap a simple case of people not driving appropriately? Probably not.

Unless a wreck happens because of mechanical failure of the vehicle, road defects or bridge failure, or a animal darting in the road, the wreck is because of some form of driver error. Its that simple. Imagine if every time a plane hit turbulence it crashed? Or every time a plane landed on an icy runway it slid off?

The pilot would be to blame. You are the pilot of a your car, if you crash it you are to blame.

What kind of wrecks happen that are not caused by mechanical failure, animals( this I will debate to a point because if you are paying attention and going the proper speed many animal collisions can be avoided) ,driver error, or road faults or failure? Please tell me. Do phantom cars come out of nowhere and cause wrecks?

Debate.


#10

@WheresRick, change the subject all you want. A) I don’t find the statement from the ISP to be remarkable in any way. It is standard police dept fodder. But I’m glad you decided to comment on life’s insignificant minutiae. B) Every time something bad happens it doesn’t mean that its somebody’s fault. Sometime sh iiizzz does just happen. C) you have decided without investigating a single incident that anyone who has an accident in the ice or snow is at fault. That is self-righteous and judgmental and false and that’s all there is to it.

mechanical failure of vehicle? Driver error.
road defects? Driver error.
animal in the road? Driver error.
bridge failure? Driver error (every idiot would see the warning signs)

Whew. I feel so much better. If something bad happens in the world I can just chalk it up to people behaving badly. It’s all so much simpler now. It fits my simple mind.


#11
C) you have decided without investigating a single incident that anyone who has an accident in the ice or snow is at fault. That is self-righteous and judgmental and false and that's all there is to it.

If you have an accident in the ice or snow, it may not be your fault, however, it is someones fault. Either you got hit by a negligent driver, or you hit someone or something. I am not saying that mistakes don’t happen, but when a vehicle crashes and its not due to mechanical failures, acts of God, Road defects, Bridges collapsing, its due to driver error.

Things do happen but there is a reason behind crashes. If the roads are so icy that you cannot control your car no matter what, you should have studded snow tires or chains, again, driver error.

Can you give specific examples of how a crash happens in the ice or snow and its not due to driver error? You may change my mind.


#12

No debate from me,even the law is wrong sometimes,these cats that have problems because they do not pay attention to conditions,dont get a whole lot of sympathy from me.As hard as it is,most of the time I will accept my part in the altercation,when its questionable,thats when it pays to have an experienced officer investigate,but alas,no matter what,somebody is going to get blamed and I try to be reasonable(in other words ,I dont like to rat people out) As I told my dearly beloved Wife more then once"pay attention to whats behind you-dont just slam on your brakes and stop in the middle of the road,you might get run over)
But Rick I can see where you are coming from,I’ll probaly get disagreement on this,on the balance CDL drivers are usually good drivers(nothing like a truck understeering or skidding,to make a believer out of one) So to sum it up"when its bad,slow down!"-Kevin


#13
. A) I don't find the statement from the ISP to be remarkable in any way. It is standard police dept fodder. But I'm glad you decided to comment on life's insignificant minutiae.
-I have alot of time on my hands.

B) Every time something bad happens it doesn’t mean that its somebody’s fault. Sometime sh iiizzz does just happen.

-Acts of God, tornadoes and such I do agree.

mechanical failure of vehicle? Driver error.

-Sometimes, a driver has a responsibility to inspect and maintain a vehicle to a certain degree.

road defects? Driver error.

-Not if the road gives out under you

animal in the road? Driver error.

 -Sometimes.

bridge failure? Driver error (every idiot would see the warning signs)

    -Not if your stopped on the bridge and it collapses.

#14

@WheresRick, whatever. I just have a strong aversion to preaching. If I want to hear it I’ll go to church. Come to think of it. That’s why I don’t go to church. And I still don’t know why road defects and mechanical failures are not driver error.

FWIW, its obvious that most accidents are because someone behaved badly.


#15

@kmccune

Well said Kevin.

Do you have a Cdl? I do have to say drivers with CDLs are trained professional drivers who drive big equipment that requires much more skill to get down the road than a regular vehicle.

All drivers should have to go thru cdl training to drive any vehicle. There would be alot less wrecks.


#16
@WheresRick, whatever. I just have a strong aversion to preaching. If I want to hear it I'll go to church. Come to think of it. That's why I don't go to church.

-------I support your decision.

And I still don’t know why road defects and mechanical failures are not driver error.

------- It depends, If the road develops a sinkhole and collapses when you are driving down the street, theres not much you can do about it. It has happened. As far as mechanical failures, it depends.

FWIW, its obvious that most accidents are because someone behaved badly.

-----We both agree.


#17

Crashes do happen and innocents get killed unfortunately for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The average person would be surprised how many drivers who did nothing wrong were injured or killed on our highways. There are also places in Maine on the coast where black ice can take drivers unexpectedly. Was some driver at fault ? Of course. But a large number were involved who did nothing wrong.

If everyone had winter tires, winter traffic deaths would be cut dramatically. They help you avoid the driver who is making poor decisions. So, of course slowing down helps. But preparing your car helps nearly as much too. I know some will disagree, but my butt and others i know have been saved a number of times because of the control we had with Awd (not truck based 4 wd) and winter tires. In slippery conditions, you are always with 2 wd at a disadvantage to Awd because you CAN’T slow down as much for fear of not being able to merge, make a hill or get through an intersection cleanly. Slowing down is something you can do with awd because being able to accelerate under control when you need to is just as important as being able to stop and corner. You can do a much better job avoiding the poor driver in slippery conditions.

I talked to several local and county police who have replaced their Crown Vic’s with Awd SUVs. They are all in Seventh heaven with the change and feel they can serve the public better and more safety. It’s a win win.


#18

+1 for @WheresRick. Even driving slowly is no guarantee that you will avoid an accident on ice or snow. I was driving out of a parking lot and had to go down a hill. I hit the brakes, but kept sliding on the ice. Fortunately, the car in front pulled out and I slid into the street. Lucky again there was no oncoming traffic.


#19

Don’t talk to me about animals. The freeway speed is 70 and if a coyote or racoon scampers across the road, there just is not much you can do in time. I was even going 40 once when a turkey flew right out from behind a fence. There’s a reason they are called “acts of God”. It’d be an act of God if you could avoid it.

Yeah black ice is a problem. You can’t see it but you know if its below 10 degrees and heavy traffic you are likely to run into some condensation on the road. I try to keep a good distance though for those surprise times. Put the brakes on to find out you’re in a black ice patch. Luckily the car slid straight anyway so just a matter of slowing down in time.

Now I hope that wasn’t a direct quote from the Indiana Patrol and they know the difference between to, too, and two.


#20

Everyone knows that to avoid traffic acidents, you simply stay home. Accidents occur in the best weather, they will ocur in the worse. Peculiar is that even though accidents occur more frequently in bad weather, the severity is often less. So, people are slowing down. It’s a risk just stepping outside your door and you do everything you can to mitigate the risk. But, just slowing down is not enough and praying the other guy does too is fruitless. Getting proactive politically about having enforcement, intersections, roadways and general infrastructure improved saves lives too.

@Bing is right. Animals have their own agenda ! I have had two accidents. One with a driver passing me on my right 40 years ago and another at 5 mph colliding with an unmarked black fence post at night while pulling into a parking lot. My wife has had one when a deer collided with the side of her car. My kids have each had one and both were sopped at stop signs and were rear ended. None had anything to do with slowing down or driver error on our part. Accidents happened, and saying that all of them could be avoided if the driver did something different other then stay home, is incorrect. But, we had as much control over what the other driver did as my wife had with the deer. Other drivers have their own agenda too, just like other unlicensed “animals” we shared the road with.