So, first I will point out that you also said chains were needed under particular conditions
No - I’m saying they’re NOT NEEDED at all. Nothing to do with semantics. Snow is NEVER EVER so bad that I’ve ever needed chains. I’ve ALWAYS been able to maneuver safely without chains for the past 1-million plus miles. Lived in the North East my whole life (with exception of my 3 years in the Army).
I’m fairly sure it was you MikeInNH that said (I added the bold emphasis):
The ONLY time you need chains is when you running on hilly/mountainous roads in deep snow.
But regardless, I never said YOU needed them. But in my book, people that cause accidents on snowy or icy roads (such as in the video) needed chains.
Just for fun, here is a picture of me a few years ago in deep snow. There is barely any snow this year. 
And you are right, no chains! They usually don’t help when the snow is this deep, and the maximum stopping distance in these conditions is about 2 feet. If you are lucky enough to get that far. 
Sure I remember chains from my childhood in Duluth, Real chains, not theses sissy chain want to bes, but our plow guys do a good job of keeping mains and highways driveable, and chains are not needed, but we are not in the mountains, and why is it so important for that guy to get 2 2x12x6 boards somewhere?
. But in my book, people that cause accidents on snowy or icy roads (such as in the video) needed chains.
Bull…I’ve seen MANY MANY accidents on snowy or icy roads…And a good portion of them were caused by someone driving too fast for conditions.
Me too. I would add that many are caused by improper or too-worn tires, poor equipment (such as bad wipers), lack of clean off one’s windows and headlights, and just plain boneheadedness. Sadly, common sense is not common. And there’s inexperienced drivers out there too that get themselves in trouble.
I’ve seen situations where I knew a car was headed for trouble before the driver did. I recall one on a descending entry ramp onto the southbound lane of the Everett Turnpike in Manchester, where I was coming down the left lane in a snowstorm and knew he/she would not be able to turn into the lane. I turned on my emergency lights and slowed down. Someone behind me blew his horn, but I stayed my course. Sure enough, the car slid right across both lanes in front of me and bounced off the jersey barrier back up into the lane. That one was either inexperience of boneheadedness. The two can be hard to tell apart.
Having a wreck because of worn wipers is pathetic and preventable
To think that 20 bucks spent could have allowed the guy to see where’s going . . .
When I’m doing my scheduled services at work, if the wipers are even slightly marginal, they get replaced. Because the vehicle won’t be back for 6 months, and I know the wipers will just deteriorate in the meantime
I agree that speed is often a cause of accidents in slippery conditions. I think this is basically where this thread started and I fully agree that slowing down is a good idea – dare I say necessary (oh-oh, I used “necessary” again. I’m in for it now). But there were a number of comments about slowing down not being enough or not being practical. So lets review some of those:
Even driving slowly is no guarantee that you will avoid an accident on ice or snow. I was driving out of a parking lot and had to go down a hill. I hit the brakes, but kept sliding on the ice.
Was speed too high? It doesn’t seem likely. Would tire chains have allowed the driver to stop easily? Porbably.
I've been in a multi-car crash on the highway. Roads were slick...I was doing about 30mpg in a 55 zone. The problem is - I came around the bend in a road and I less then 100' to stop. Sorry...I don't care who you are - you couldn't stop in time.
Was speed too high for conditions? Probably. Would chains have helped? Well, driving at 30 mph is no problem for properly installed chains, so they could have been used. Would they have stopped the vehicle in time? I cant say for sure, but 30 mph to zero in 100 feet is a deceleration of about 1/3 g. That’s very doable with chains depending on the actual surface condition. At the very least, they would have greatly diminished the impact.
...the oil truck on the way out coming down the steep hill to the "main" road nearly collided with the school bus letting off kids at the bottom. The only way to avoid a collision was to roll a half full oil truck onto it's side in the ditch. He was driving 5 mph at the time.
I’m not sure if the 5 mph was at the top of the hill or just before he went into the ditch. But it is very likely chains would have allowed him to stop safely.
he only time I had an accident due to road conditions was coming home from my French class at the local college and deciding on a short cut, which was a 2 lane blacktop coated with late March sleet. I stayed below 30 mph and slowed down for a left bend in the road and went into a spin.
Again, speed could be said to be the problem, but since I think this one was a rear wheel drive car, chains would have prevented the spin and likely allowed the driver to stop safely even if the front tires were sliding.
I've seen the highways get so bad in a winter storm that people stopped in the toll line were unable to get rolling again.
The crown of the road made it physically impossible to drive...in 4x4...in a straight line ! in low range, all four wheels slowly turning..and sliding.. I had to maintain a constant left angle...essentially constantly cimbing UP the roadway arch...to even hope to go straight down the roadway. Comming to a full stop resulted in sliding sideways down the slope of the road surface .
While they were sitting there..they saw her car just slide off the road into the ditch. No one was in the car...it just slid off the crowned road.
These three are all similar. Zero or very low speed. Speed doesn’t seem to have been the problem. In all case, chains would have most likely made driving fairly easy. And you can add the vehicle in the video to this bunch. Most if not all were going very slow when the started sliding. Chains would have made all of these vehicles able to stop.
So you can say “Bull” to chains all you want. But the evidence shows that when the conditions are particularly slippery, they are effective at 1) getting you where you want to go and 2) greatly improving safety. And, all at a very reasonable price.
Yes, chains are very practical and often neccessary.
The problem there being…timing.
If you don’t already own chains and have them in your gear bag in the back…it’a already too late.
I practiced with chains way back when dad had a ‘72 International Scout II and just one set of chains. I put that set on the front tires and that thing was a veritable TANK in snowy hills where I went to …eh-hem…’'practice ? ''
Never got it stuck and even negotiated some 45 degree snow covered slopes.
In a worst case scenario …only one set of chains and back-woods driving…I put chains on the front of a 4x4.
But not on the roadway to drive, I’d put them on the rear of a 4x4 or on the drive axle of whatever.
For the snow in the picture you posted, you don’t need chains, you need tracks.
@Quixotix - so how many times have you been driving where you were unable to drive without chains?? In the past 30 years and over 1 million miles of driving I can count on ONE hand. I’ve love to know what part of the country you live in if your answer is more then mine. Because I grew-up and learned out to drive in one of the snowiest parts of the country. Only the rocky mountains gets more snow.
@MikeinNh Right! We live at the base of the Rocky Mountains and have never needed chains. If there are avalanches, like this winter, you don’t travel those parts; chains would not help you.
The Calfornia Highways Department used to require chains going over the Donner Pass, since many from San Francisco going to Reno had no snow or winter tires; I believe now you can do without chains if you have 4WD and/or winter tires.
The last time I used chains was in the early 60s around the Great Lakes. I concluded they sucked and never used themn again. Studded snows with Positraction was the best combo in those days.
The only place we see chains these days is on wheeled front end loaders when they are moving snow.
The last time I used chains was in the early 60s around the Great Lakes.
And that’s where I grew up and learned how to drive. And the only people who used chains then were plow drivers. Or people who didn’t know how to drive in snow and they needed all the help they could get.
why is it so important for that guy to get 2 2x12x6 boards somewhere?
Well, Paul Bunyan asked me to bring him more matches. You don’t say no to Paul! Unfortunately Babe (his blue ox) had left some hoof prints in the snow, such as this one, that I had to negotiate.
OK, seriously. It just so happened that on that same trip I wanted to drive another road that had this, er, bridge? I wasn’t quite sure that the existing planks would support my rig, so I brought my own boards.
so how many times have you been driving where you were unable to drive without chains?
I’m not really sure, but I would run out of fingers and toes if I tried to count.
But, to emphasize what I mentioned in my first post, I go out to drive in the snow for fun:
Thanksgiving storm - sorry I’ll miss dinner.
Christmas Eve snow - I can eat fast, and I can always visit with my relatives next year.
Wife in labor - Just kidding, I didn’t skip out on that. But then we did plan my daughters birth to be in the summer.
Since I go out looking for the worst conditions, I would expect the number of times I have used chains to be higher than most.
Further, I’d change your question just a bit. “Unable to drive” isn’t when I’d say I’m currently most likely to use chains. Because I’ve prosperously equipped my rig for driving in the snow, I can almost always “drive” without chains. I am most likely to install them: 1) when I might be unable to stop going down a steep hill, and 2) when I’m unable to pull someone else out of the ditch.
So, here are some wild guesses as to how many times I’ve used chains:
To go down slippery hills (usually where there are a number of accidents already - 30 times.To pull other people out of ditches, etc. - 15 times
When I was unable to drive - 50 times
Note, this may sound like a direct contradiction to what I said in the paragraph directly above, but it's not. I haven't always had a rig that was as capable in the snow as my current one. So, years ago I was much more likely to use chains to get through deep snow. But, I don't really do that anymore.Helped other people install chains on their cars - 200 times.
When the State Patrol requires chains to drive over Snoqualmie Pass on Interstate-90, there are a lot of people that can use help putting them on.
Personally I think tire chains are ideal for areas where snow is infrequent. In these areas, buying dedicated winter tires (not all season M&S tires) may not be justified. And an extra set of tires takes up a lot of storage room. But for around 1/10 of the cost of winter tires, you can have a set of chains that will give you really good traction in snow, even if you are running worn-out summer tires.
Your argument is moot until we know where you live? You keep saying that EVERYONE should be using chains in snow…which is totally bogus. So where do you live that you THINK people need chains all the time?
Personally I think tire chains are ideal for areas where snow is infrequent. In these areas, buying dedicated winter tires (not all season M&S tires) may not be justified. And an extra set of tires takes up a lot of storage room. But for around 1/10 of the cost of winter tires, you can have a set of chains that will give you really good traction in snow, even if you are running worn-out summer tires.
If you NEED chains for places where it doesn’t snow much…then you need to learn how to drive in snow. I can count on one finger the number of accidents my wife and I have been in due to snow…Between the two of us that’s a total of 80 years of driving and over 2 million miles.
I have a dozer blade on the lawn mower so I use chains if I use it to scrape the driveway. No doubt it really adds traction, but if I needed them for the car, I’d just stay home or get a motel if it was that bad. The times when I needed to drive though and chains would have been nice, I couldn’t see where I was going anyway.
The other thing I wonder about on a all wheel drive is what it does to the transfer case? If you can’t have tires with different diameters, wouldn’t this cause havoc with chains?
The other thing I wonder about on a all wheel drive is what it does to the transfer case? If you can't have tires with different diameters, wouldn't this cause havoc with chains?
This isn’t a problem for a few reasons. But first, in order to give an accurate answer, we need to delve into what all wheel drive, four wheel drive, etc. mean. All wheel drive (AWD) is usually, but not always, used to refer to vehicles that have full-time drive to all of the wheels. Four wheel drive (4WD or 4X4), again, is usually but not always used to describe vehicles that normally drive just two of the wheels (on dry roads), and where the driver, or sometimes a computer, decide when to shift into 4 wheel drive.
If we use these definitions, then AWD vehicles have a center differential, or other device, that allows the front and rear wheels to rotate at different speeds. When making a corner, the front wheels travel further that the rear wheels. If there were no center differential-like unit, then making corners on dry pavement would be bad news.
So, with AWD, mildly different size tires would not be a problem at the slow speed you would drive with chains on. The drivetrain is designed to deal with different rotation speeds front-to-rear as well as side-to-side. Just to be clear, significantly different tire sizes and higher speeds could burn-up center differential-like units, and/or cause serious handling problems on many AWD cars. Chains just aren’t going to change the average diameter much, and you shouldn’t be driving at high speed with them on.
For 4WD vehicles, usually trucks, any small difference in rolling diameter that chains may cause would be no different than making a mild turn to the left or right. In either case, one or more tires will have to slip a little. But, if you have shifted into four wheel drive, and installed chains, then the road surface must be at least a little slippery. So it won’t take that much force to cause a tire to slip, and thus won’t put much strain on the drivetrain.
Still haven’t told us where you live to explain the NEED for chains in snow. Still waiting.
Enough already!