The Slick Road did not cause your wreck!

@dagosa

I have owned two Trailblazers and still drive a 2005. I was a bit leery of the automatic 4 wheel mode for reasons similar to yours but found it to be quite good and safe. It only kicks on with significant wheel spin which means it rarely engages beyond low speeds like taking off. The engagement is not abrupt. I have found it extremely useful in only engaging when needed so you’re not manually switching back and forth repeatedly for those times the roads are spotty. If you want continuous engagement, simply rotate the selector over a position for that mode.

Let's see this last snow and ice storm down south, most people were at work and decided to try and get home

My brother-in-law (born and raised in upstate NY) made it to work and home with no problem. Some of his co-workers stayed at work because they hadn’t a clue how to drive in snow. My brother-in-law had to drive one of his co-workers car out of the parking lot (little up-hill - .2% grade). Walked back down to his car…and then drove himself home.

I saw a lot of the news coverage. Many truckers had accidents. But they also interviewed several truckers from the north…who said it was a little snowy…and you had to take it slow…but they didn’t have any problems maneuvering. They got stuck because the road in front of them was blocked.

When you have a large segment of the population who doesn’t know how to drive in snow…then get a 2" snow storm…it can really cause havoc.

Rwee, the kids had to stay at school because the busses couldn’t travel on the roads. All bus transportation had to be cancelled. So the schools let the kids stay there. An “emergency shelter”, if you will.

I think I know where you and I differ. We use the word “choice” differently. If all schoolbusses are canceled due to a natural disaster and the kids have to remain in the school buildings, you say they “made a choice” to stay at the schoolhouse. I don’t consider that a “choice”. Under your definition, emergency workers make a “choice” to drive to work in bad weather. Doctors, nurses, police, plow drivers, under your definition they all made a “choice” to drive to work. I don’t consider that a “choice”. I consider that a “necessity”, and I applaud them for being willing to do so.

You also believe that driving home after work is a “choice”. Ever try to find a hotel room in a populated region in a storm?

How about the millions of us that are on medication; painkillers, bloodthinners, blood pressure meds, antibiotics, etc. Medication t o control our heart rates, regulate chronic pain, or even prevent diabetic comas, seizures, or psychological breakdown? Medication that we need daily. And those who have disabled dependents at home. By your definition, we make a “choice” to drive home if a storm comes while we’re at work. And how about those who simply cannot afford a hotel room?

Under your definition, everything is a “choice”. If I fall off a cliff, it’s because I made a “choice” to do so. When I got deployed overseas, it was a “choice” to do so.

Rwee, you need to give people more credit than you do.

During the Blizzard of '77, when Western New York got about 100" of snow, my father was the Commissioner of Transportation of Buffalo, NY. He decided to hop in his city car and drive to City Hall, leaving his family, so he would be there if needed.

Last week Atlanta, GA got 2.6" of snow, and neither the City Manager or the Mayor could be found. What’s wrong with this picture?

Massachusetts natives talk about the blizzard of 77 when ever a big storm hits. MA was devastated. But the amount of snow they had was less then half what areas like Buffalo and Syracuse saw during that storm. It was one of the worse storms I ever lived through. Out town got well over 60" from that one storm. My F-150 pickup was buried someplace in my driveway. The snow drift in our back yard was up to the bottom half of our second story windows.

Some years ago I think we got about a foot of snow so I made the choice to stay home. This was before FWD was popular. My neighbor worked at the hospital about 5 miles away. About 9:00 a snowmobile showed up and off she went to the hospital on the back of it.

@BLE I believe “the right tires” beats AWD.

Every time I hear comments like that it makes me wonder if I missed the part in the owners manual that says…"under no circumstances can you mount winter tires on this awd car. They would be too good in snow and embarrass the heck out of fwd drivers too cheap to buy awd cars AND snow tires for winter safety "

Son of a gun. Comparing awd with all seasons and another car with winter tires is like asking two sprinters to compete, one obviously better then the other, and making him wear Fiip Flops.
In the real world, we compare two cars in performance by having them wear the SAME tires.

To do otherwise invalidates any comparison.

I believe "the right tires" beats AWD.

That makes no sense…

What about AWD or 4WD with “the right tires”. I’ll agree the right tires will beat out AWD or 4wd with summer tires that don’t have any thread. But no way can it beat out AWD/4WD with proper tires…no way no how.

@MikeInNh
My son in law from Utica reminds me when I complain about shoveling out the cars, when he lived at home they could get daily 6 inch snow falls for a week and trucking the snow out of town was a weekly town job. Maine doesn’t get that much snow anytime.

@Whitey
In defense of govt. officials in Georgia, tax payers would complain mightily if they spent tax payer dollars on stock piling sand and salt and buying spreader trucks with plows just for that one time a year snow. Even 2 inches can be difficult to anyone unprepared. It’s the nature of the South. If we in central and northern Maine have a week or two straight of 100 degree weather in the summer, we would be just as "inconvenienced ".

And Utica is at the Edge of the Lake Effect area.

MikeInNH Long Lost Magliozzi Brother

12:33PM

I believe “the right tires” beats AWD.
That makes no sense…

What about AWD or 4WD with “the right tires”. I’ll agree the right tires will beat out AWD or 4wd with summer tires that don’t have any thread. But no way can it beat out AWD/4WD with proper tires…no way no how.

In order for your AWD vehicle to out accelerate the RWD motorcycles in that video, it would have to be capable of going zero to sixty in less than 3 seconds, on ice.

“Along that vain…In the movie “The Great Escape” - Steve McQueen had a seen where he was jumping this motorcycle over a 6’ high barbed-wire fence to escape the Nazi’s. So for the filming they had a couple of stunt drivers for the scene…But they couldn’t do it. McQueen was a very accomplished motorcycle driver…so he said he could do it (took him one take).”

  1. It’s “vein” not “vain”.
  2. It’s “scene” not “seen.”
  3. The fence jump in “The Great Escape” was performed by accomplished off-road motorcyclist Bud Ekins.

@BLE
We are talking about cars and not motorcycles. Throwing in cycles to make a point about awd vs fwd is a diversion. If you really want to just talk acceleration on snow and ice, let’s talk snowmobiles.
Or, better yet, just go drive an Awd car with snow tires over a snowy mountain road with lots of hills. Then try to do the same with a fwd with snow tires. The learning curve will be a lot faster then this debate.
Besides, the reason a motor cycle with studs or spikes can accelerate is the relationship between it’s traction area to it’s weight on the drive wheels, .the exact same reason why an Awd car can out perform a fwd car on ice with the same tires. This is why on ice and snow, snowmobiles reign supreme.

First off you need a car that can do 0 - 60 in less then 3 seconds…Not even a Lamborghini can do that.

A lot of ice racing where I grew up in NY. And they all had very these huge tire studs for traction.

You can NOT use them on the roads - they tear them up. Equip a AWD or 4wd vehicle with those studs…and they can go a LOT better on the ice then the bike racers.

Second off - you obviously don’t do much driving in snow or ice. I’ll take my 4runner with my Cooper AT3 tires and beat the BEST motor cycle with the best studded tires on REAL roads (especially with hills) any day of the week. Sorry…they may be great on ice with studs…but they’ll do lousy on any type of hill covered slush on a paved road. Those studs are NOT made to grip into asphalt.

@dagosa

A diversion, perhaps, but you said AWD will “always” outperform rwd with the same tires. Always is an absolute term, no exceptions whatsoever.
During acceleration, inertia causes nearly 100% of the bike’s weight to shift to the rear wheel. It may as well be AWD.
Anyway, the real point of the post was to illustrate the difference the correct tires can make. Imagine even trying to ride a motorcycle on ice using road tires.

@BLE
Correction…fwd ! Always overall on snow and ice but not always in normal driving conditions.
But I will say in general. Yes! Given the same driver, tires, slippery conditions and similar size cars, ALWAYS ! We aren’t talking about about individual tests as sure, some makes of fwd cars will brake better which has nothing to do with the drive train but more to do with the car. But, if you score braking, acceleration, handling through pylons, hill climbing, emergency avodance in varying terrain etc. There are a few aspects like weaving through cones while coasting that you will get no debate from me about a fwd car being equal. But, as soon as you press the gas, th fwd car begins to plow, which in real life situations occurs on hills and in passing and merging all the time. Now add ice and snow, there becomes no comparison between Awd and fwd. So dramatic is the difference that even some Awd SUVs and trucks normally poor handlers, begin to excel over fwd cars. In normal dry conditions, the difference is more subtle and less apparent and a fwd Camry does fine when not asked to do anything extraordinary. Plus, it’s much cheaper to own and operate then the Awd Lexus or BMW version of a similar weighted and powered car. That’s where fwd has the advantage…price and packaging ! The first time you drive with the right tire equipped Legacy in snow and ice conditions over varied terrain immediately after driving your fwd plow horse, the difference will be apparent ?

@MikeInNh
I have had a couple of trucks and a small SUV equipped with decent AT tires. They were as good in snow conditions as any winter tire I had and actually much better then some. They were better on ice then all season tires too. But, ice conditions are severe where I live now and getting winter tires that could be studded is definitely a big advantage. When we move back into towns and I still own a truck or large SUV, it will have AT tires for sure. That’s why I try to say “appropriate tires” and not always “winter tires”.

Ice can be very severe. Luckily we don’t get many ice storms around here. I have no problem with winter driving with good AT tires. My current tires are Cooper AT3 (one of the best tires I’ve ever owned). And during the summer I do some off-roading when my son and I go hiking in the White Mountains. Some of those trails can be very fun if you don’t have decent tires.

@MikeInNH
Actually, we probably get no more ice storms then you. We do live on a dirt road that’s very steep in places. The road frost due to the fall rains, forms an ice base for the snow the entire winter. Plus, after the frost sets in, every time we get a winter rain with temps above but near freezing, if forms into ice on contact with the frozen road surface. By the end of the winter, we will have accumulated several inches of ice that is perpetual under the snow. We have our best winter traction when snow sticks to the ice and packed snow is all we have to deal with. Our daily walk out to “get the paper” at the end 1 1/2 mile distance, is always done with ice grippers or dedicated boots with 3/8 inch hex head screws in the bottom. Some of my neighbors have a much greater distance to travel on the ice.

The original post was to say that accidents cannot be blamed on bad weather, as all accidents are the drivers’ faults.

Have we beaten the question to death yet?
I vote that we put this thread to bed.