No blanket statement do the best you can and stay home on bad days if possible.I’m sort of getting around to the 4wd school of thought,that a person should go as far as possible in 2wd,then after having difficulty,engage 4wd and return home(they say it works real good in the wilderness and outback-Kevin
@rwee2000
There is a real easy test for glare ice conditions. It’s the test you make when you get out and walk. If you cannot walk up a hill without traction aids or have to walk off the road then you will have very little acceleration and traction aid with all season tires and 2wd. If you can get out of you car and walk up the hill, most cars with decent tires, on ice can do it too. There are too many variations of ice conditions and it’s impossible to generalize about what type of vehicle can or can’t do well. But, you obviously did do the right thing for the conditions. But, IMHO, it was walking conditions.
@samemountainbike makes some very good points. This is still another case where someone with one set of conditions experiences some succes and assumes his technique will work everywhere. Again, our perception of hills and ice are totally different . In southern states, a northerner will brag about his expertise in driving on ice but if southern eastern state is in hilly areas and get significant slippery ice (warmer 31degree ice is slipperier then cold ice found in the north often) and the terrain is steep, NO ONE moves in a 2wd car with all season tires. Your so called expertise in driving as a flatlander does work for you. When hills are involved with ice, you need snow tires or other traction aids to drive slower. Without that help, no one moves on hills. Many south eastern states are very hilly and Awd …NOT 4 wd which people are throwing into the conversation indiscriminately, works best with those traction aids. Now, some one will brag that they past some idiot in a ditch with a 4wd and assume that guy had decent tires and knew how to drive…and the debate goes on.
@the same mountainbike
I’m more than willing to bet most of the problems were caused by speed.
I understand the roads may be different from state to state, I remember one winter in KS when had over an inch of glare ice on the road and the state basically did nothing, never mind there was a HUGE pile of or road salt sitting there, (they mine road salt in KS) they waited for it to melt. It me almost an hour to chip the ice off my car door so I could open it and start my car, (work was canceled so I didn’t have to go in, which I found out AFTER chipped all the ice off)
If you could get a hold of the DOT video, it would be clear that the problem was and I’d put my bet on speed, so I stand by my statement.
Rwee2000, there’s no question that many people drive too fast for conditions. I see it all the time. And there’s no question that highway departments don’t always do a premium job. In their defense, it can be an impossible task in a storm. And that’s all compounded by people driving on well worn tires and even inappropriate tires. But there are also conditions that simply cause sliding by even the best and most experienced drivers with the best tires. I’ve seen videos of state plow truck sliding down the crest of a road in sheer ice.
Many here have said that if it gets that bad, simply stay home. But not everyone can. Often it happens while one is at work, and for commuters that can be many miles, in my case it was 31. I always carried a “blizzard bag” and went to the nearest hotel in really bad conditions, but even the drive to a hotel can be treacherous. I’m retired now, so if snow is expected I simply stay home, but it tool me many decades to be able to do that. The overwhelming majority of working people spend most of their lives having to drive on bad roads. They have to pick up their kids, the have to work, the storm hit while they were at work, and countless other reasons. And the plow truck driver has to get to work too.
And given those facts, statements that imply that weather related accidents are always the fault of the driver simply demonstrate ignorance. We live in a real world, not an ideal world. In the real world, we can’t control everything. And in the real world, those of us in states that have winter have to drive many times every year when we’d rather not do so.
Enough already ! ! ! ! ! !
Whenever I’ve driven up north in the snow (whether driving a semi or a car), I’ve become a target of hostility because, having done most of my driving down south, my comfort level on snow and ice tends to be slower than average. I never let it worry me though. If my Florida plates aren’t enough to explain why I’m driving slow on snow and ice, well, let’s just say I don’t really care. I’ll drive my car and you drive yours. 
Oh, and unless you’ve been designated an official moderator, it isn’t really your place to try to censor people in this forum. I’m talking to you, @PvtPublic.
OK, But I don’t really think was “censoring” any one, just stating my opinion.
I have never complained about a driver who drive too slow when the weather is bad, or good for that matter. I don’t know their skill level and they may be driving at the limit of their skill. I rather see a person driving too slow safely than too fast and being a danger to me and others.
@the same mountainbike
“And given those facts, statements that imply that weather related accidents are always the fault of the driver simply demonstrate ignorance”
But it IS the fault of the driver with very few exceptions (a lightning strike would be an example of not the driver’s fault). But, who else is to blame? If the weather conditions are beyond your skill level and you go out anyway who do you blame? The driver made the decision to go out and drive, if the driver can’t control the car then they shouldn’t be driving. Yes I understand job, kids, etc. Been there done that, but if the weather is beyond a driver’s skill level and they have an accident, it’s the driver’s fault.
@rwee2000
With all due respect, you are living in the past, totally ! There are a plethora of Awd cars out there in foul weather in the north and other places with poor winter driving conditions. . Around here when snow is heavy and conditions poor, fewer 2wd cars venture out except to get home from work. Now granted, our state gets more snow then most but our drivers are a little smarter sometimes. They get off the road when real bad or jump in their 4wd and Awd cars and trucks with snow tires. Do some still go off the road ? Sure, there are idiots everywhere. But saying driving skill is all that matters with a little fwd car means you can drive it anywhere with enough skill. Or more niave still is, just stay home. That my good friend is really short sighted. . The type of car and tires AND the driver make for safe transportation.
Rwee2000, you’re making my head explode.
Do you really believe that everyone out there driving in bad weather is doing so by choice? Do you really think that if they had a choice they be driving in such weather?
If you were to query 1000 people out there driving in bad weather, IMHO you’d be lucky to find one who’s there by choice. Make that 10,000 people.
In my 30 some years of commuting 50 miles one way, I never failed to make it home. I did leave early many times and encouraged others to also do so, but there were many times I didn’t make it to work and just stayed home. I’d allow one week out of my vacation time just for snow days each year.
Now I understand 4WD and AWD are better to get going, and I agree with how nice it would be with four winter tires sometimes, BUT remember getting going is only half the problem if that. The other half is stopping and also seeing. A 4WD and AWD or even FWD is no better at stopping than a RWD. Plus if the snow is blowing and you can’t see where you are going, nothing will help. And athough the roads are flat and straight in the Dakotas and Rural Minnesota, you have no idea what the wind can do with a little snow in all that flatness.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gone to work on a nice sunny day…and then have to drive home in snow storm. Especially when I lived in upstate NY where lake effect storms are so unpredictable.
Just to contine this endless conversation in the coffee shop, the book I’m reading, “The Men Who United the States”, which I’d recommend as interesting for US history-at any rate the author was driving his rental over the Donner Pass. Nevada patrol said all was well but when he got up there the road was blocked with patrol and was sleet and snowing. The sign said chains required to go any further and guys were selling and installing chains for $75. Bought the chains and continued on safely to San Francisco. I never knew they did that. This is not a novel and I would have done the same thing.
"guys were selling and installing chains for $75."
That is the essence of entrepreneurship, as well as providing a public service.
Kudos to the guys who came up with the idea of selling & installing chains in situations like that.
Yes, it may be a bit overpriced, but they are entitled to a decent profit for their labor, their foresight, and their sense of entrepreneurship!
LOL
Bing, I got snow-drifted into a Launch Control Facility at a missile site for a number of days out there. They had to bring in a front end loader to dig us out. Hey we had our own power, plenty of fried chicken, and a deck of cards. What the heck.
To whom you 2wd owners it may concern !
Just remember that the ability to “get going” is EQUALLY important to stopping. For some reason, this false argument that stopping is more important at the total exclusion of accelerating under control is absolutely false. Tell me how safe it is to loose control while accelerating or failure to get through an intersction swifly or crest a hill or merge or…which two wheel drive cars are prone to do worse. Excellent braking regardless of the drive train does little to help in these potentially dangerous situations. And, being stuck in a deep freeze and stranded is not a great advantage either.
Sorry, it’s equally important to both accelerate under control and stop. Awd with the appropriate tires can stop equally well and they get going immeasurably better in slippery conditions. That simple makes them a far superior mode of transportation along with giving the driver more safe options. You 2wd owners are just trying to validate your decision to save money. This is a worthwhile consideration in general car ownership but don’t play the " I am just as safe in a 2wd car " card in slippery weather. It’s totally and uterly false.
When we get a big nasty weather event here the majority of vehicles I see in the ditch are 4x4 pickups and Suvs. I also noticed at the local body shop today the majority of the trucks, suvs and awd vehicles that are sitting in the lot waiting for repair have damage to the front of them.
Just an observation.
I sometimes think that people with less driving skill tend to gravitate to these 4 wheel drives because it helps their handicap, the problem is it allows them to get into trouble quicker.
Look at the General Lee, it was a 2wd dodge charger and it did just fine on the dirt roads.
It is a possibility the suv crowd are over empowered and under skilled.Luckily I am not in that crowd, Now yes I admit if the passing lane is open I will overtake the blue hair going 15 mph, with 4wd on demand but know that stopping and steering is more important than going. I grew up with 2wd in the rear, know my limits, test the brakes to surmise road conditions, trying to think of the last time I was sidelined, has not happened yet. edit Remember in my 72 nova decided to downshift the auto into second, lost control on the glare ice drive and ran smack dab into a tree! Do not downshift on ice!
Regarding General Lee . . .
Didn’t they go through multiple General Lees, because they got thrashed after those “jumps” . . . ?
Most of those shows had multiple cars. Often one was used for closeups and lesser versions dressed to look like the main car were used in all the crash scenes.
Interesting tidbit:
James Garner was a highly respected stunt driver before he became Rockford. He was actually faster than the stunt drivers the studio hired and the footage shot with him behind the wheel was generally the one used.
Another tidbit:
You’ll never see Thomas Magnum in the Ferrari with the top on. He couldn’t fit!