I profoundly disagree with you
I’m not siding with the dealer, manufacturer of the module, or manufacturer of the car, for what it’s worth
But I can’t agree with you
Just because something seems 100% logical to you, does not mean it will be that way for me
apparently Henry Ford was something of a womanizer, anti-Semite, and extremely hard core right wing . . . even publicly supported the National Socialist party (also known as the Nazis)
Every man has his good and bad side
I do, but my bad side pales in comparison to that guy
All that might be true, but his idea for using interchangeable parts has some merit.
Have u sourced a used part yet? Lots of talk says it can be done
If the dealer refuses to even attempt to use a salvage yard part I can’t say that I blame them.
The U.S. is a horribly litigation heavy country and if someone had an accident later (even if it had nothing to do with the brakes) there may be no hesitation in suing the dealer, the salvage yard, and FOMOCO for a trillion dollars.
Car manufacturers and dealers are being sued and have been sued for everything shown in the parts manual it seems so there’s no reason to doubt otherwise on a hybrid brake controller.
I will state that I’m not saying the OP would do this; only that there is no shortage of consumers who would.
Cadillac was the first manufacturer to claim parts interchangeability.
Henry Ford didn’t have to worry about collision investigations that involve serious injury or death.
Embedding a VIN in PCMs, ABS modules and Airbag modules help manufactures track warranty failures, warranty claims and investigations.
Appreciate all the dialog and it’s interesting where this conversation has gone.
In the last few days, there’s been little progress with Ford, except that I now have a case opened and am trying to get in contact with the regional customer service manager. Dealership has said that there’s nothing more that they can do.
I’ve spoke with a few mechanics and one helpful shop indicated that I need to find someone that has (or has access to) a Ford NGS Scan Tool (New Generation STAR) that is needed to reprogram a used HCU. This confirms that Ford CAN reprogram a HCU, but CHOOSES not to. Before jumping on me, I get why they won’t/don’t.
May have found someone willing to try and replace the HCU, but it’s going to take some energy to find a suitable replacement part.
Appreciate the suggestions and recommendations. A few comments:
This vehicle wasn’t particularly new or had untested technology. It was used by NYC and San Francisco as a fleet taxi vehicle, regularly racking up 300K-400K miles. The Escape Hybrid was named the North American Truck of the Year in 2005.
When I said no brakes, it does feel like there are no brakes. Here’s how others describe it: “In manual mode, there will be no boost so the driver will have a very hard/stiff brake pedal. Braking efforts will be very high for the driver and will likely prompt them to tow the vehicle for fear of having no ability to stop at all. The complaints of “no brakes” or “barely stops” may be the common terms used by customers whose brake system has entered manual mode (fail safe mode).” http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/tech-feature-ford-hybrid-braking/
@GeorgeSanJose - turns out that this part wasn’t used for any other vehicle besides Escape Hybrids, it’s not covered by the Hybrid Extended Warranty (8 yr/100K miles) as it’s not a Hybrid covered component.
Here’s where I’m at option-wise:
Pursuing the last option and we’ll see where it takes me.
Again, thanks for the lively discussion and those that took the time to comment.
Contacting Ford Motor Company is the first step, the dealer can’t afford to give away expensive parts.
According to jgree142 Ford techs have the ability to rewrite a VIN in modules, this is not common with other manufactures.
“Reprogramming” (software update) the module normally doesn’t erase the VIN so that a new one can be entered but there are exceptions. However those without formal training use the term “reprogram” to include any button pushing with the scan tool. Perhaps they meant a VIN rewrite but unless it is mentioned directly I have my doubts that this person has experience with this.
More than half the families in the US would be considerably better off financially and possibly safer with a good 4 point seat belt system...sans air bags and ABS,I know *I* would!
Just a thought: I’m to understand OP has un-assisted, hydraulic brakes and no regen, right? Would it be possible to tap into engine vacuum and retrofit a power MC? The PCM would have no idea, and then OP would have hydraulic power brakes and no regen…which I could live with.
I would NEVER buy a new car without airbags and ABS, if such a thing were even possible . . . and I know it isn’t, not in the USA, anyways
I’m not talking one-offs and gray market cars
I’m talking regular production cars
I’m not the best driver, but I’m not the worst, either
I’m pretty sure I’m better off WITH airbags and abs
I can’t predict and avoid every single potential accident
CarMax is not going to want this vehicle-selling as is could result in a lawsuit if someone crashes on the way home-donate a defective vehicle does not sound ethical-
Faced with this situation I would most likely just have ford repair it and trade it in on a new non-hybrid vehicle at the same dealership if I could afford it. This is one of those things where you are going to take a bath no matter what you do.
^As long as you buckle up, you’ll be fine w/o ABS, particularly if you had a 5-point belt. (If you fail to do so, you’re SOL.) At any rate, allow the market to decide w/o coercion. A new car, w/o ABS, that I can afford, is much safer than a new car, with everything, that I can’t.
selling as is could result in a lawsuit if someone crashes on the way home"PARTS CAR for sale-bring a trailer" ought to cover liability.
Just a thought: I’m to understand OP has un-assisted, hydraulic brakes and no regen, right? Would it be possible to tap into engine vacuum and retrofit a power MC? The PCM would have no idea, and then OP would have hydraulic power brakes and no regen…which I could live with.
Not possible. Not only is the brake pedal not connected to the hydraulic system on the car, but since it’s a hybrid where would the vacuum for the booster come from? The engine only runs half the time.
A new car, w/o ABS, that I can afford, is much safer than a new car, with everything, that I can’t.
That point is irrelevant since all cars sold here must come equipped with ABS, vehicle stability control, and air bags. Carmakers are just following the rules set out to them by the government.
This system is fully brake by wire… You, the driver, only tell the system you want to brake, It (Computer) figures out how to do it… The braking events are choreographed together with the ECVT transaxle. In most cases the transmission/regeneration is used to slow the vehicle. The friction brakes are only applied at slow speed or when moderate to hard braking is required. Installing normal master cylinder/ABS will not make the powertrain system happy and will result in the Hybrid system being disabled.
Service Part Number 8M6Z-2C286-A
or engineering PN: 8M64-2C286-AA/8M64-2C286-AB is required… These are the Parts required for a 2008 Escape Hybrid. I don’t have a VIN to go off of so I can’t know for sure the vehicle you own is a 2008.
A quick internet search found…http://www.ebay.com/itm/ABS-PUMP-ANTI-LOCK-BRAKE-2008-08-FORD-ESCAPE-HYBRID-VIN-H-OEM-Stk-AA17505-/271891156997?fits=Year%3A2008|Model%3AEscape|Submodel%3AHybrid&hash=item3f4df9d005:g:DoAAAOSwNSxU2Qx7&vxp=mtr
$650 for it… Beats $4300 for a new assembly if it is in good shape. Thank God for Ebay!
I can’t say that this part is any good, but the numbers match… It is the right number. Get someone to perform the “Blank Path PMI” using the factory IDS scan tool and you can either continue driving her or sell it as a functional vehicle.
I was thinking about replacing a component in one of my vehicles because of an issue I was having. I wasn’t sure but did some more research and then found a wiring harness had been chewed by a mouse. I repaired that and the problem went away.
Basically the car thought I was trying to steal it and would shut off a few seconds after I started driving. The parts I was concerned about were all keyed to each other so a car thief couldn’t just tow the car somewhere, replace a few parts, and be good to go. ALL the parts of the car related to the anti-theft system would have to be replaced with a matched set including the ECM. While it makes it harder to fix certain things besides a broken wiring harness, it also makes the car harder to steal. I am not sure the tradeoff is worth it.
In this case, I don’t see why the brakes are keyed to the VIN. If you put a used part from a different car, will it lock up the brakes so the car can’t be moved to prevent theft? Unless this is the case I cannot see any other reason but to make it have to come back to the dealer for repairs if this breaks.
I got to thinking about this “VIN has to match the car” replacement-part thing, and while it would be annoying to not be able to simply reprogram the part from another car, there’s one thing good about it. That part would be essentially un-steal-able. No thief would steal it if it couldn’t be used on any other car. For commonly stolen parts like batteries and cats, maybe some merit to it.
This system is fully brake by wire...
Yes, under normal conditions, but in “manual mode” behaves like a vacuum-boosted system without the boost.
while motorcycles are still sold to be driven on public roads I must assume that safety standards are greatly influenced by lobbying from the manufacturers and marketers.