The control module can be separated from the HCU so it may be possible to reuse the original control module on a used HCU. The service department won’t want to get involved with a junk yard experiment so you may have to search around for help on this.
How much can the average American afford to spend to buy and maintain a vehicle @MikeInNH? Surely a Lexus with 400k on the clock wouldn’t be a good choice regardless the price. The pipeline is filling with disposable automobiles. Fifty percent of the country earns about $28,000/year or less. If they bought a car with points that needed replacing before their first payment was due they might find a few bucks for the parts and a shade tree friend to replace them. On the other hand a failed ABS system on a Lexus would leave the proud new owner walking, possibly unemployed due to lack of transportation and paying off the note on a derelict piece of scrap iron.
The pipeline is filling with disposable automobiles.
Really…show me?
@“Rod Knox” I agree with your comment. In his book, “What You Should Know About Cars”, published in the early 1960s, Tom M Cahill commented that he had two friends, one with a 4 year old Volkswagen and one with a 4 year old Cadillac. Both cars were purchased new, both had about the same number of miles both were in the same condition. Interestingly, both cars, after 4 years, were worth the same amount as used cars even though the Cadillac cost more than three times as much as the VW when new. As used cars, many buyers are looking for transportation. Even today, I prefer a car without automatic temperature control, manual transmission, simplified radio controls, etc. My guess is that what McCahill said back in the early 1960s is probably still true today. After a certain number of years, a Corolla or Civic may be worth as much, if not more, than an Infinity or Lexus of the same vintage with the same number of miles and in equivalent condition.
@“Rod Knox” - So NASCAR doesn’t have airbags? True. But they have custom made and padded seats, five point safety restraints, helmets, HANS devices, and roll cages with anti-intrusion construction. They race on tracks surrounded with crash absorbing SAFER barriers and have cars with aero flaps that open to keep the car from going airborne (most of the time). They race on tracks with other drivers who have elite driving skills, vision and reflexes. They race according to a strict set of rules that are strictly enforced, very often immediately. I think the lack of an airbag under these conditions is unlikely to seriously decrease their safety. But I could be wrong.
More than half the families in the US would be considerably better off financially and possibly safer with a good 4 point seat belt system and 55 mph speed limits, sans air bags and ABS, @bloody_knuckles. But certainly opinions vary.
Mike, as long as these complex vehicles hold up, their owners will be very happy with them…Toyota takes great care in not building and selling vehicles with built-in time bombs waiting to go off…So they command premium prices on the used market…The Prius hybrid is a prime example…Most people thought they would never live to see 100,000 miles…That electronic and battery failures would doom the car…That hasn’t happened…As it turns out, the Prius is setting a standard for reliability and long life…Who would have thought??
Instead of equipping cars with airbags, l have a better idea that would be less expensive. After watching the Presidential debates, let’s equip each vehicle with a windbag. There are enough candidates that we could equip every vehicle.
A few hours travelling with one of the presidential hopefulls might make Dr Kavorkian look like a friendly face.
@Tridaq: Yes, but that would cause people to intentionally drive their cars into trees, bridge abutments, etc. just to get away from the blather, and you’d need the A/C on all the time just to counter the endless hot air.
For a 2008 hybrid, unlikely much that can be done other than begging for a discount or selling the car for parts. Remind them that you’d like to consider this Ford dealership as among the vendors for your next car. They might extend some options to you to remain on your good side.
Also …
Double check if there’s any warranty coverage remaining, since the problem seems associated with the hybrid regen braking system. Many manufacturers provide an extended time period for the warranty for things associated with the hybrid specific parts. And they sometimes extend this beyond what they originally promised. They do that to entice folks to buy the cars in the first place, buyers often being reluctant to shell out big $$$ on unproven technology.
Also, ask them to provide you a list of all the recalls, customer interest, and technical service bulletins that are brake related for this vehicle. You might discover doing a little research something in that list that would might make this repair less expensive. Unlikely to pan out, but worth a shot.
And don’t dismiss taking your car to an inde shop. Maybe they can find a cheaper used unit from a wrecked car that will just fit the bill.
“The only thing that really gets my goat here is the bit about “the module is VIN specific and can’t be reprogrammed.” If that’s true and his dealership isn’t just BSing him to trick him into giving them too much money, then I think there should be sanctions against Ford for that. They’re effectively guaranteeing future profits by bricking perfectly good used parts on purpose and for no legitimate reason. That’s absurd.”
This is standard practice for the industry
suck it up and deal with it
Are you going to boycott the entire auto industry . . . ?!
Dale Earnhardt died because his seat belt attaching points were modified from the locations specified by Simpson, the manufacturer of the belts. Dale felt the setup was uncomfortable as specified.
suck it up and deal with it
Uh, no, but thanks anyway. There are lots of things which are standard practice but which are also unethical and wrong. Just because a lot of people are doing it does not mean it is OK or that people who are victims of it should “suck it up and deal with it.”
Just because you don’t agree with something doesn’t mean it’s unethical and wrong
That is why I used the expression which you don’t like
I’m not sure I even agree with the usage of the term “victim” in this situation
If I am faced with an expensive repair bill, that does not mean I am a victim
There are many things in this world that bother me, and that I don’t like
And many of these things are costing me a lot of money
But that doesn’t necessarily mean that the corporations/people that are doing them are unethical and wrong
And yes, there are many situations that I know I can’t change. And I just have to “suck it up and deal with it.”
Clearly, I see things differently that you do
At the very least, this is a poor design from the customer’s point of view. Anything that can be designed to be programmed once with a VIN can be designed to be programmed multiple times by using a different chip. Yes, maybe it costs a few dollars more. But penny wise is pound foolish in this case, with the result at the customer has no choice but to buy an extremely expensive new part. I’d be upset too.
Fortunately I drive a 17 year old Honda with no such foolishness.
A used HCU/module can be used in this vehicle assuming that it is the same part/hardware number. The VIN can be overwritten if the correct scan tool PMI process is utilized. The dealer is just being a jerk or does not know how to perform the correct reprogram process. 650 bucks for the part (used) and a couple of hours of labor and some brake fluid… Done.
The VIN write and mismatch faults where module report that there are incompatibilities are not really to piss off customers but rather provide a potential safety net… Yes irritating to those who have to fix them, more costly to owners that own them, sure. There are some important points to the madness to consider.
Today we can have vehicles with numerous options, stability control, multitudes of interior packages, multiple engine/transmission combinations for a given vehicle model… All of this stuff is tailored to the specific application so all the parts can work and communicate together… (Much of these systems are multiplexed using network communication. Meaning they all share information with each other.) Depending on how the module is configured it may send or not send certain information to other modules. It may look for information that it believes should be on the network that is not. All of these issues will result in some form of warning indicator illumination issue or a severe degradation to the operation of the vehicle.
The incompatibility faults/heartburn are there in the attempt to keep people from swapping in components with software/configurations different from what current vehicle is. The mentality that just because a module fits, plugs in and powers up does not mean it will work properly. The errors tell the user, “HEY, I’m probably not the right part for this car”. Imagine installing an ABS module from a non hybrid into a hybrid. It wont fit, but just suppose that it did… If incompatibility faults did not set, rendering the vehicle inoperative, the ABS and brake by wire will NOT work properly. Poorly functioning brakes equals, this vehicle could potentially kill someone.
In this case, call another dealer, find a competent tech, get a matching PN Module/HCU, reconfigure the darn thing and move on.
The interconnection between the regenerative hybrid braking system and the anti-lock friction brakes makes this a very tricky (and expensive) repair…Check to see if there is an online forum for Ford Escape owners where you might be able to find some help (or a market) for your car…
@db4690 There is absolutely no technical reason that a part has to be slaved to 1 vin only. The only reason to disable swapping parts is to force the consumer into buying parts where you want them to buy parts rather than salvage yards.
Hell, this move even eliminates the common diagnostic procedure of “swap a known-good part in” because, gee, that known good part will only work with its specific vehicle and will deliberately cease to function on mine. It’s outrageous, anti-consumer, and should be banned.
This goes back to the “my property; my choice” argument. I bought the car. I’m not temporarily licensing use of the car. The manufacturer has no legal right to tell me where I can and cannot get parts for it. If they’re using underhanded tactics to artificially force me to buy parts from them, then I am a victim. End of story.
If a replacement part has to be programmed to match-up w/the car’s VIN, I can see safety reason why that might make sense. In the cases I’ve heard about, the part just had to be re-programmed. Although often something easier said than done, requiring special scan tools. But not being able to swap a part from one Ford to another, at all? Completely disallowed? You have to buy a new one for $750 is the only method? To me that practice seems an anathema to Henry Ford’s well-informed and proven good idea of making his cars with interchangeable parts.