Yeah, they had design issues. Like I said, modern engines shouldn’t burn oil in my opinion. But obviously some do. Some modern engines have design issues.
No sparring required. Again:
Where is your support that no modern engines burn oil?
Thank you. Please take your tripe with you.
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We will argue about range…or something.
But what will become of Bob the oil guy?
Not necessarily a design issue, some cars of the same model have an issue and others do not. luck of the draw in the engine build my guess.
We don’t have to prove anything, you already disproved yourself with you own words.
So it’s either using no oil, or it is using less than 1/4 qt.
Hmmm… and you don’t know which it is.
Time to just put your foot in your mouth and quit spreading misinformation.
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No worries. ICE vehicles will be around for decades, even if only used ones, and we can discuss oil to excess for a long, long time.
I wasn’t addressing you - that was a response to Scrapyard-John, who at least has the decency to avoid your type of abusive, relentless attack. BIG MAN who wants to prove himself the authority over anyone who posts here. Follow your own words & Take your own tripe with you
I think you should learn to have that decency too rather than calling someone else’s comments “tripe”, etc. You’re pretty much doing the same keyboard warrior thing you seem to want to accuse others of. What’s up with that?
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Did you bother to read the nasty comments he and others have made? So, Answering such abuse calling it “tripe” is leagues below the undeserved abuse a concerted effort by most responding posts is miniscule compared to that, and is warranted. Just drop your responses, as I asked you to stop purposely posting and posting with intent to irritate and escalate this issue.
here’s a thought … you can agree to disagree and end the topic. onto bigger and better things
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Let’s remember who introduced the word “tripe” to the conversation here.
And back to the issue of cars, I began this topic to remind people here that car engines use oil. Gas engines, diesel engines, direct injected, carbed, old, new, Euro, Asian, on and on. I see cars of every make, model, and age with low oil level on the dipstick and no significant leak. Engines use oil. Period. I don’t see how any reasonable person can dispute that. And the fact that I, and any other professional, see cars on a daily basis that are low on oil validates that. After all, the word normal means happening on a regular basis.
Now people can argue and debate all they want about whether engines should use oil or not. That’s an entirely different discussion, and one that is not really enhanced by saying “I own this car that never needed oil” because examples like that are not really valuable. No more valuable than me saying teeth shouldn’t get cavities because I never do.
Anyway, several posts back there is a picture of a 3 year old car getting a $10,000 used engine installed because the driver never checked the oil. That’s my point. Check your oil, add as needed, and stop complaining that you have to. It’s normal.
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End the tit-for-tat arguing that asemaster wants to continue to agitate. The “teeth” getting no cavities - is so irrelevant to engine design & oil usage, it cannot be used as an analogy - that much is obvious.and simply move on to another topic.
weekend-warrior, GREAT SUGGESTION! Just end the bickering and move on to another topic that is more meaningful than using flawed engine designs as some comparison to the countless good designs that use little or no oil for 10,000 miles. That’s why I own a Toyota.
You need to pay attention to what @asemaster said. He has lots of actual experience.
All engines burn some amount of oil fresh from the factory. Some don’t need oil added between changes, some do, has nothing to do with abuse. Of course, engines that have been abused will also burn oil. But they’re not the only ones requiring oil additions.
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All piston engines use some oil.
It thankfully isn’t usually enough to need to add between changes, it might not be easily measurable, but they all use some.
There has to be some oil left on the cylinder wall on the down-stroke, or metal to metal abrasion between top ring and cylinder on the up-stroke would be destructive in short order.
Combustion flames are quenched when they reach the relatively cool cylinder wall.
A very thin layer of oil on the cylinder wall is thus kept cool enough that it doesn’t readily burn off.
Raise the cylinder wall surface temp and more will burn.
That’s one reason why many engines burn more oil under a steady higher load, like when cruising on the highway, than stop-and-go in the city.
If the rings fail to keep the cylinder oil film thin the oil insulates itself from the cool metal cylinder wall, allowing the surface of the oil to get hotter; then more burns.
If you don’t have to add oil between changes then you are good
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I notice in the picture that you have lowered the motor and transmission together out the bottom. Is that the only option on this type of vehicle, or just the easiest technique when working in a professional shop with a lift, etc? As a DIYer, obviously, my “shop” is equipped with a floor jack, jack stands, extra steel wheels (to place under the tires), and an engine hoist. So pulling a motor and transmission out the bottom would be difficult to impossible. Out the top is a pain too, but apparently not an option on some models…for example, V-6 minivans.
I am just curious, because from time to time, I see cars which might need an engine replacement very cheap, and the junkyard motor isn’t expensive, but then my research of how to actually do the job leads to the need for pulling out the bottom, which I am not equipped or comfortable doing.
What’s all the arguing about? Newer engines generally don’t burn enough oil to require adding any within the 5000 mile oil change period, and that can continue in to 200k miles. Older engines often did need oil added. But a car maker is not obligated to manufacture the engine in such a way that it doesn’t need oil added. They can have softer materials and looser tolerances like engines did in the 60s and they can burn more oil when they’re new, and even more when they get old. It can be worn out at 170k miles, or it can wear out at 300k. It all depends on how it is made.
I guess things can get tricky when a company that has a reputation for making an engine that will go to 200k miles without needing oil added between changes makes an engine that needs oil added. Is it considered a defect or not? I see how that can get quite controversial. But adding $10 worth of oil before 5000 miles isn’t a big deal to me.
It wouldn’t surprise me if a company like Ford, which has a reputation for a major engine or transmission issue in an otherwise good quality vehicle, starts making engines that wear out at 180k miles, or one that uses as much oil as an engine from the 60s.
Oh just shut up.
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Separating the engine from the transaxle requires removing the right CV axle and transfer case. One of the younger guys is working on this, and he followed the published service procedure. If I had done it, I would have pulled the CV and transfer case in the car, pulled the radiator, stripped the accessories from the engine and pulled it out the top. It would have been harder and dirtier to do but probably faster.
This right here, statements like this:
This is flat out wrong. The more people hear nonsense like this, the more people end up spending $10,000 replacing engines on 3 year old cars.
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