It seems that everything that should have been right went wrong:
Honda Pilot. According to Consumer Reports, this should be a very reliable vehicle.
Serviced by independent shop. This is what most of us posting on the board recommend.
Maintenance seems to have been done by the owner’s manual.
Oil presure lights rarely fail to give a warning of low oil pressure.
Sometimes, unfortunate things happen. I glance at my garage floor almost daily to see if there are fluid leaks from the cars. I pull out the dipstick every so often even though neither of my cars ever need any oil. I got into this habit with my first car, a $75 Pontiac that used a quart of oil every 250-300 miles. Both my cars have a light that is supposed to warn of low oil level, but I would rather read a dipstick.
Maybe I was fortuanate having had to drive old cars where I had to keep a close watch on everything.
I referenced the tensioner but I was incorrect on that. It is a hydraulic unit not driven by oil pressure. However, the engine is a VTEC which means oil pressure operated variable cams, etc.
The OP was negligent. They knew less than zero that the oil level should be checked regularly and were apparently ignoring that puddle of engine oil on the garage floor that existed.
Here’s another issue I have. I’ve done front counter work and on more than a few occassions have seen one spouse evil eye the other when a mechanical fault is explained and the fault is attributable to one or the other. In one case (Subaru) this may have been the final nail in the divorce coffin, which was finalized about 6 months later.
The OP has no clue at all that the oil level needs to be checked regularly and apparently didn’t buy into it even after a lot of posts advising this. After several days and a 100 posts now the story becomes 180 diametrically opposed with the husband checking the oil, it was fine, etc., and the oil checkers also having a huge vested interest in the outcome of this incident.
My feeling is that wife asks husband about this, husband feels he’s about to get taken to the woodshed for an actual or symbolic tail whippin’ for failure to do so, and does what many husbands would do in a critical situation; lie their hineys off and say they checked it.
The one person in the world I absolutely hate to discuss any car issue with more than anyone is my wife because she simply can’t get it. Period.
So at times it’s much easier for me to feed her a short line of technical BS (a.k.a. bald-faced lie) to shut her up rather than try to argue the point with her about something she knows minus zero about.
In many ways, we were a lot better off in the days of full service gasoline stations. When one bought gasoline, the attendant would check the oil. This present problem would likely not have happened. With self service stations and motorists expected to keep tabs on what is going on, sometimes incidents like these happen.
Your post about not discussing car problems with your wife reminds me of the Model Garage series that apppeared in Popular Science magazine from the mid 1920’s through 1970. The Model Garage was located in a small community and its proprietor, Gus Wilson took care of his regular customers from the community. One of the characters that appeared quite frequently was Daisy Allen. Daisy was good at misdiagnosing car problems but always put Gus on the right track to solve the problem. Here are two of the situations I remember:
Daisy brought a Mercedes Benz to the Model Garage. Her nephew had driven the car from quite a distance away and much of the driving had been at night. Daisy brought the car in because the battery was discharged and she had to start the car by rolling down a hill and popping the clutch. She told Gus that the cause of the battery being discharged was that the water pump was defective. After all, she reasoned, a battery needs water and the water has to get into the battery somehow, so it must be pumped in by a water pump. While the diagnosis seemed goofy, Gus remembered that Daisy’s nephew was mechanically inclined and that the water pumps on that particular model of Mercedes had weak bearings. Daisy’s nephew had backed off the belt tension so that the water pump wouldn’t give out. However, since he was driving at night, the belt slipped enough that the generator couldn’t keep the battery charged.
In another incident, Daisy brought the family car in and wanted heavier springs put on the left side of the car. When her husband drove the car alone, it would stop dead. Daisy never had the problem when she drove the car. If she was riding with her husband, the car worked fine, so she decided that she offset some of his weight. Therefore, heavier springs on the left should solve the problem of the engine stallings. Of course, Gus finally figured out that Daisy’s husband had a big set of keys on his keychain and the ignition switch was worn. Daisy drove the car with her keys and when they were together, Daisy’s key was used. She didn’t have a big ring of keys.
Sometimes it’s better that women like Daisy don’t diagnose car problems.
Couldn’t resist it,time to weigh in.Could this not have been sabotage? Its happened around here,someone would drain someones oil and catch the oil in a container.And what did they mean by loose drain plug? Some people tighten these things to the point of stripping the the threads(a new gasket each oil change helps keep the drain plug from leaking or backing out).My wife killed a Honda Accord before I meet her by lack of maintenence(the first time it came back to life after oil was added,the second time it was terminal-she tried to get Honda to pay for it,but alas to no avail)You do need to pull the dipstick from time to time.-Kevin
One thing I remember which was not relevant enough to that thread, but ok here, is the old tv commercial for some kind of motor oil. The specifics are fuzzy but they drained the oil from 2 cars and ran them, the one with the good oil went 150? miles further. Anyone else remember that commercial?
Thanks for the near heart attack! After all this talk about checking oil levels I decided to check mine. Around year 2000 decided to delegate oil changes, and check with my shop after oil changes to see if it was low at the 3 to 5 k point I get it done. It was a balmy 25 degrees so since I have to fill it on slow or I get a burp of gas out the filler hole I thought what the heck, I’ll check the oil.
There I was pulling out the dipstick, my vision isn’t quite as crisp as it used to be, OMG a giant orange blob on the end of the dipstick taking me back to memories of foaming oil of some car long ago. It is a plastic thing to make reading the oil level easier to read. Oil was full but even us old shade tree mechanics get complacent after a while.
Exactly. Just one more person trying to deny their own responsibility for their problems and attempting to get someone else to foot the bill for the resulting damage. They choose to remain in complete denial, so that facts won’t undermine their preconceptions. Just a waste of time dealing with them in any reasonable way. Why do these people usually seem to be of the same gender?
One gets the feeling that if Jacina wins her case (assuming there is any engine damage other than a broken timing belt) ok4450 will have to pay for it…
I thought the OP was given good advice in the first couple of pages. After that it became not so much a matter of looking of advice but more a matter of trying to get someone to back them that it was so and so’s fault therefore they should pay.
Throw in that 180 degree swing in the story and it becomes even more suspect.
Bottom line is that a warranty claim has been denied due to lack of sufficient oil due to a leaking drain plug; with this story backed up by the oil puddle on their garage floor. And if a puddle exists on the floor this means there are oil drops all over town.
Whether it’s oil change facility’s fault is irrelevant now because I don’t see how they could hold this place liable after quite a few months, quite a few miles, their failure to check the oil level, and their awareness of an oil puddle. From what I gather, the car has been moved from the dealer to wherer it was towed to another facilty so the water has just been muddied up even more. If I were running the oil change facility and heard this story I’d laugh them out of the building if a demand were made for repair coss.
It’s also noted the OP was advised that 10 PSI of oil pressure is normal. Not. The only engine that will carry 10 PSI of oil pressure is a worn out engine. This figure sounds like something pulled from the net or from a worthless publication like Chiltons. Even factory manuals will give outlandish figures that no sane mechanic would agree with.
One of my manuals (Lincoln) says that 150 PSI compression is fine for a 4.6 Ford, which it is not. It’s a sign of engine wear. Even worse, the manual also says that having some cylinders at 150, others at 113, with a variance of 37 is fine and acceptable. This is pure science fiction.
“It’s also noted that OP was advised that 10 PSI of oil pressure is normal”.
Maybe the technician that advised this thought the OP was driving a 1940s or early 1950s Chevrolet with the splash lubricated engine. These engines carried about 10 PSI when idling if they were in good shape. I think that the oil pressure gauge on my dad’s 1939 Chevrolet had 15 PSI at mid scale and 30 PSI at maximum. As I remember,the 1949 Dodge that replaced the Chevrolet had a guage that read 40 PSI at midscale and 80 PSI maximum. I remember dad explaining to me about oil pressure and the difference between splash lubrication and pressure lubrication. I haven’t seen a car that has an oil pressure gauge that gives a readout in PSI. I guess we will have to go to electric cars where the motors have sealed bearingsl
To quote Shakespeare in one of his famous plays: “The fault dear Brutus, lies not in the stars, but in ourselves”.
Agree that the oil monitor lights are having what economists call “unintended consequences”. Just because their is a light, does not mean I don’t have to check anything. Nowhere in any owner’s manual does it say you wait until the light comes on.
For an engine to be down to 1 quart, something really bad has to happen or a very long time has to elapse between anyone checking the level.
Years ago I had a 1961 Ford straight 6 which had the oil filter sticking out of the side of the engine. I had the car seviced (oil change, filter, grease job)at a nearby gas station/garage prior to a trip out of town. This car had neither an oil pressure gauge nor an oil warning light.
Just beyond the city limits on a 2 lane highway, smoke started pouring out of the hood. I immediately pulled over, popped the hood and was met by a smoky fire. The oil filter on this car is close to the exhaust manifold and with the filter loose and squirting oil, it had caught fire.
I was in the diesel engine business at that time and carried an old blanket in my trunk for crawling under equipemnt. The blanket quicly doused the flames, and I called a nearby garage for a tow and fix.
The crankcase was down to 1.5 quarts, but since I immediately stopped the car no engine damage resulted. I presented the garage bill with a signed explanation by the manager that this car had run out of oil because of a loose oil filter.
The service station that did the original work was quick to compensate me.
This is a rare instance where I was able to take quick action because of the presence of a fire. Had the oil leaked out the bottom on the highway, the engine would have been toast. An engine without any oil in it will run about 7-10 miles before seizing up.
But neither your '61 Ford nor Jacinas car ran out of oil. When Jacinas car was driven home and parked, it was running FINE. NOBODY knows how much oil was in it THEN…We only know it had 1.5 quarts in it the next day, according to a Honda dealer mechanic…1.5 quarts is about 30% of the 4-quart capacity…The timing belt had “Jumped time”, preventing the engine from starting. Only a lot of loose talk has shifted the engine failure from a timing belt issue to an engine seizure caused by lack of oil.
You ARE correct about the 7 miles with no oil figure! That’s EXACTLY how far most cars go!
You may not be correct about '61 Fords not having either an oil-pressure gauge or an idiot light…I’ll have to check that out…I think our Drivers Ed car, a '61 Custom-Line, 6, three on the tree, had a temperature gauge and an oil pressure gauge flanking the speedometer…
Thanks Caddyman, it’s been a while since the event. I was used to checking whatever gauges the car had regularly. I picked the car up in the morning, paid the bill and did not pick up speed till I got out of town. Since there still was oil in the crankcase, and the car had not started overheating yet, everything appeared OK untill the smoke started.
In 1961 the “safeguarding” lights had not arrived on the scene yet.
But I agree that OP’s car had more than one problem, and was not just a case of owner negligence.
I believe at one point someone said the oil light was set to come on at 5 and someone else said it should come on below 10, which if my memory is correct, is a far different matter than saying 10 is normal oil pressure. But, at one point I think someone did say something about some cars having very low pressures at idle when hot. I am not going to re-read that mess again.
As to the 10 PSI of oil pressure I referenced, here is a cut and paste from the post.
Engine oil pressure specifications:
At 3,000 rpm : 50 psi.
At idle (600 rpm): 10 psi.
Oil pressure warning light: ON at pressure below 10 psi.
I think these pressures are from that old improperly interpreted adage about 10 PSI for every 1000 RPM, which does not apply at idle speed. Start off at 30 PSI at idle and then apply it. I’m also not sold on the pressure spec for the sending unit closing spec.
While I’m not following every post I do check in on the last page now and then and it appears the story is once again being altered or enhanced by the OP.
Here’s another possibility. If the car had some oil in it (but not near enough) the bearings are going to be the first thing damaged as Caddyman states. What if this had been going on for a while and eventually wear on a rod bearing was severe enough that one half of the bearing shell decided to occupy the same space as the other?
I’ve seen a couple of trashed engines in which both bearing halves were on the same side of the connecting rod. My memory is hazy on this but it seems like one of them threw a rod and the other just instantly stopped rotating.
I have always believed that oil pressure is a good thing to have in one’s engine, and not having oil pressure is a bad thing. I liked the days of oil pressure gauges that gave the reading in pounds per square inch. I also liked ammeter gauges that gave the reading in the amperage produced and temperature gauges that gave the termperature of the coolant. I also like analog read-outs of oil pressure, coolant termperature and amperage.
Years ago, I remember that we were on a family vacation in the 1949 Dodge my parents owned. I was about 11 years old, but my dad had explained to me what the gauges meant. I was sitting in the back seat and noticed that the oil pressure was much lower than it normally read. I said something to my Dad and he immediately pulled off the road. Upon checking the oil, we found it down over 2 quarts. Dad and I walked a mile to a filling station and came back with a couple of quarts of oil. We had checked the oil before we left home and filled the gas tank, but the Dodge had a drinking problem. At any rate, I got an extra amount in my allowance for the week for saving the engine–75 cents instead of 50 cents.
It’s out of control now…The story has changed too many times. Conflicting Testimony. Everyone is heading for the exits and Jacinta’s car has been pushed out into the parking lot where it’s liable to remain for a while…
REFERENCE THOSE OIL PRESSURE SPECIFICATIONS:
Minimum 10 psi at idle
Minimum 71 psi at 3,000 rpm
These values come from alldata. On the 10 psi minimum at idle, Haynes and autozone.com agree, also, with alldata.
Did anyone else research the oil pressures?