And that can happen too, it just depends on things we will never know without first-hand inspection of the engine, or, at a minimum, a conversation with the mechanic that took it apart. You need to accept the limitations of what a discussion like this can provide, and there are many.
First off, I don’t think I’m a “banished poster”. It’s nothing more than a net glitch from the get-go with a message that it can be cleared up by contacting someone. Why bother.
There also seems to be a fixation with this 1.5 qts of oil (maybe an eyeballed one quart in reality) and that is not enough oil to prevent engine damage.
That 1.5 qts was in the pan after the engine had been off for a while, the vehicle had been towed, etc, etc.
Up to the second it quit that 1.5 (?) was not in the pan at all.
Since the OP has weighed in here I will only tell them that I’ve been a mechanic (and gearhead) all of my life and have seen this same situation a number of times.
I’ve also spent time as a shop foreman/service manager and also got involved with the warranty clerk in processing stubborn warranty claims that were kicked back for whatever reason.
If this vehicle were brought into a shop I was running and given the history of this incident any claim for warranty repairs would be quickly and respectfully denied.
One and a half (maybe) qts of oil in the engine, the dealer and warranty clerk had nothing to do with oil changes/inspections/leaks, and no one questioning why an oil puddle exists in the middle of the garage floor would mean the end of the discussion and case closed.
Oh c’mon guys, be nice. The lady had a serious problem and was seeking help. She probably knows no more about cars than I know about the world of finance. There’s no need to start a whole thread solely focused on admonishing her.
Besides, if in fact the oil pressure warning light doesn’t work, then between that and the fact that the last oil change place may have actually left something loose and leaking, she probably has legitimate reason to be upset. These would definitely be mitigating factors.
IMHO this one deserves correction but also compassion.
Okay, so in other words, take what is said in the threads with a grain of salt.
Can the independent car shop be held responsible since they left the drain plug loose?
I know this is comparing apples to oranges but I fly light aircraft and if the engine dies because of a lack of adequate oil, and it was determined that I didn’t check the oil before flying, the FAA and NTSB would come down on ME, not the engine manufacturer, not the mechanic who changed the oil last (doesn’t even have to be a mechanic), but ME.
So I carry over this philosophy to my car ownership, I AM ultimately responsible for my car’s well being and the safety of her passengers, not Honda, not my mechanic, me. So trust but verify.
I know it sucks but I don’t think anyone can be held respoonsible except you for not checking the oil at least once in a blue moon between changes. This could have been prevented. If someone did a hack job changing the oil then it should have been brought to their attention long before 3k after it was done, that’s a long deferral for something like that.
UPDATE O/P: You can just ignore that above paragraph if you want, I just saw that the oil was checked roughly 2 weeks ago (I have to assume that the level was within limits, but you know what happens when you ass-ume) Good luck with the repairs, I know how much it sucks to have a disabled car for an extended period of time.
I’m not condemning the OP on this issue. Matter of fact, I have a lot of sympathy for someone in this situation; even if it is self-inflicted.
Tardis pretty much laid it out on the first page but the advice given was apparently not what the OP wanted to hear.
The denial of warranty can also be applied to many other areas. Take a transmission for instance. What if the OP had the transmission serviced by whomever, the trans had a slow leak due to a drain plug or pan gasket, and was leaving a trans fluid puddle where the current engine oil puddle is right now, followed by the trans giving up due to low fluid?
Should warranty cover this? No. The leak was someone else’s fault and the owner was negligent for allowing it to continue. It’s definitely not a manufacturing defect.
For those who think that any amount of oil is sufficient, I had to check a VW that was towed in. (alleged warranty issue and conveniently dropped off after hours)
This VW had 17k miles on it, approx 1-1.5 qts of oil in the engine, and was also blessed with 2 of the 4 connecting rods sticking through the block.
The owner of this one was beyond irate and after a week of cursing, lawsuit threatening and whatnot, it was revealed that he had not even checked the oil level in 7k miles. So yes, this month away from graduation law school student had to pay for this one.
I hear you, MB, but I noticed the post when it was at 59 posts, and the first page said it all to me. Her main claim to blaming Honda and the dealership was that none of the idiot lights and electronic monitors warned her of a problem, so it is Honda’s fault, despite at least 5 well-known posters arguing against it. With that many posts, I determined there was nothing more to add, and moved on. It’s up to 134 as I write this.
While I’m not getting involved in that particular Biblical in length discussion (and never read much of it after the first 2 pages) I didn’t see anyone mention something that is related to oil pressure and someone can feel free to bring this up for discussion there if it has not been mentioned.
Like many cars the Pilot has an oil pressure operated timing belt tensioner. Along with the crankshaft and bearings being the first victims, little to no oil pressure on the belt tensioner means…?
On second thought, I could be wrong about the oil pressure operated belt tensioner. Maybe someone could do some checking on that and determine if it’s oil pressure operated or simply a self-contained hydraulic adjuster much like other models.
“On second thought, I could be wrong about the oil pressure operated belt tensioner.”
Yes you could…How could that possibly work?? When you started the engine, there would be zero oil pressure and a loose belt, a guaranteed disaster…
If you re-read my post, you’ll see the last question on the post was not, “how can I make honda pay” or “how can I stick it to the insurance people”
It was-
If oil starvation is the problem of a failed engine, why didn’t the mechanic and the Honda Inspector see the evidence?
Through out all the posts I have been asking for clarification on what mechanics, like all of you claim to be, are telling me. Like Mountainbike said, I don’t know squat about cars, although I can change my own spare tire and I did install an alternator in an old, old car of mine from my early 20s. That is why I came asking questions of this board and its responders.
Half of what I get is “shoulda, woulda coulda”. That’s so helpful-NOT.
The other half, is actually intelligent feedback letting me know that despite what HALF THE CAR OWNERS out there think, oil lights do not tell you level of oil.
Well, thank you…I didn’t know that and like most of you have posted, ALOT of people don’t know that either.
That is the point in asking questions, is to get answers like that. Not point the blame and find someone to stick it to.
We did pay for an extended warranty, so I was looking for people experienced in that matter. Not half the posts who were calling me an idiot for buying one. Gee, that’s helpful…what is this board made of? A bunch of know-it-alls?
Bottom line, I’m trying to shame you into being helpful and not wasting space on this board.
READ MY POST! and as a final point, are dealerships ALWAYS HONEST? There are horror stories out there, which is why I came to this board in the first place in hopes of getting honest intelligent feedback.
For those providing that feedback, thank you.
I think that’s why some cars are doing away with the dipstick in their vehicles. They know most of their owners don’t check anything(transmission fluid, oil, etc., so they decide to save a few bucks per vehicle and do away with the dipsticks. Can ya really blame them?
I remember reading on here that someone asked BMW what they meant by “lifetime fluid” for their transmission, and the answer they got was “When the transmission seizes due to old, gunked up fluid, then that’s the lifetime of the transmission”
The OP changes the story after several days and a bunch of posts. Now the oil level was allegedly checked twice and found to be fine by several relatives who have somewhat of a vested interest in this situation.
At this point leaky drain plug, little oil, no warranty.
Setting aside my best instincts, I read all 144 posts in the other thread. I have to agree with OK, Tardis, Tester, and the multitude of other responders that your engine IS showing signs of oil starvation. Metal shavings and burnt smell are not the only indicators. Despite what the mechanic who broke down the engine is saying, seized bearings ARE a clear sign of oil starvation. The cams are seized up. There is an oil puddle underneath where the car parks. I doubt the 3-1/2 missing quarts are included in the puddle. The reason I know this, is because I made a mistake when I was much younger. One of my first oil changes, I accidentally left the oil drain plug off when I started adding oil. During the second quart, I nearly slipped on a huge oil slick I just made on the garage floor. 1-1/2 quarts of motor oil left a huge nasty puddle of oil that quickly stretched beyond just the underside of the car.
Others have tried to be helpful. I read their posts, and agree with some of their conclusions. The engine appears to have seized due to lack of oil. The dealer is denying warranty claim due to negligence. I don’t think your going to get anywhere pushing the warranty issue any further. The dealer sent out an inspector and has legally covered their bases.
We’re just reading this from your point of view, based on the evidence your giving us. I’m confident the dealer will not OK this as a warranty claim. They’ve appeared to have dug in. That leaves paying out of pocket or trying the oil change place next. But, given that they last touched it 3 months ago, I feel they will deny your claim as well.
I don’t shame easily, and that’s why I have not posted in that huge thread. There’s no point, since your not accepting the fate of this case. This thread was started to comment on the size and direction of the other thread. I felt compelled to comment here, since I avoid large threads like a plague. Some advice just becomes arguments that become flame wars. Just not my bag.
This is certainly not meant to disagree with anything you have said, but I believe at one point she said they drained the oil and got 1.5 quarts. I just happened to notice that comment.
Oops. Didn’t see your posting below because I tend to post as I read things which make me want to comment. Sorry.
Independent shop owner:
“We change the oil in thousands of cars and have NEVER (as far as we know) left a drain plug improperly tightened. We changed the oil in THIS car last November and on January 27, the oil level was checked and found to be normal and there were no visible leaks (as others have stated). Therefor, we feel we tightened the plug and how it became loose more than 2 months and 3000 miles later is open to debate but we do not feel we can be held responsible…”
This or something very close to this is what you will hear from the shop owner.
Do you have a written statement from the Honda mechanic who originally found the loose plug?? That might be helpful. It might be very hard to get…
I don’t like to be too negative, but in this case the key issue was OP was argumentative, period. She simply was not/is not going to stop until she gets her own way, also period.
When you post a question on any forum, you are going to get what comes at you. In this case, she had a question she stubbornly wanted answered. The problem is, the mechanics and experienced car owners who answered did not find that question to be relevant, based on the facts she stated, and I think told her so very plainly MANY TIMES.
She wanted it be relevant because only by it being relevant can she justify demanding SOMEBODY PAY for something that is not their fault.
Jacinta, if you can get someone to pay for this, more power to you. If you are vocal enough, they might offer to pay part just to shut you up. It happens. But, if you run your 148 posting thread up to 2,000,000 postings, the answer is going to be the same. You are asking people with considerable total expertise to put aside their expertise to give you an incorrect answer to an irrelevant question, because you want it.
Jacina knows very little about cars, nobody is arguing that, including Jacina…
But none of you know ANYTHING about Jacinas car, other than third-hand information posted by someone you obviously do not trust…(Jacina) You have all decided her engine is destroyed and it’s all her fault…
This will REALLY get interesting if by Monday afternoon Jacinas car is returned to her, no damage found, a new timing belt installed, car running perfectly, the lights blinking on and off as they should, Jacina happy as a clam…
We will likely never know facts in this story. Oh well.
I just hope that when this saga reaches its conclusion Jacina posts back and gives us the epilogue…What repairs were done and who paid for it…