I think fraud has always been illegal…
MG, I’ll go on record as saying that I think it’s wrong of you to accuse someone of lying on a subject that you yourself admit to knowing nothing about. I think you owe Jay Leno an apology.
Yes, electric drills were used to turn the old cable-type odometers back.
I have no idea how to turn an odometer back, but I can tell you that all the electric drills I have will do 2,000-2,200 RPM.
I seem to recall that OBD II has the odometer mileage stored in the computer.
Kawasaki replaced the engine ECU on my Ninja 300 motorcycle due to a recall. When the dealer replaced it, both trip odometers went to zero but the main odometer still remembered the total mileage. However, I think most motorcycles use pre OBD II technology.
@Mustangman I think your math is off. I found more than one source on the internet that stated that the cable speed is 1000 RPM at 60 MPH. Here is an example: http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/SpeedoGearCalc.html Here is another: http://www.autometer.com/tech_faq_answer.aspx?sid=2&qid=10 Apparently this is a standard for speedometer shops. 60 MPH is one mile per minute. Therefor one minute on a 1000 RPM drill would take off or add one mile. Even if they had a 2000 RPM drill, or a gear set up to increase the drill’s RPM to 120 MPH, the customer is not going to sit there long enough to have his car SHOW 15K. To roll the odometer from 88,000 up to 115,000 (that’s 27,000 miles) would take 225 hours at 120 MPH.
Here is a video showing how the poster changed the mileage on a Toyota. Of course this is much later than the '60s. This is part two. Part one shows how he got the speedometer apart. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgYpLaNgSb4
Several years ago, my older son had a '78 Chrysler LeBaron coupe with a digital dash. (It also talked. Yuk!) The dash went blank. The parts man at the local dealer was a friend of mine. He could have sent it in for me, but instead gave me the phone number for a repair shop in Colorado. I called them. They asked for the mileage on the car, which could no longer be read. I used the oil change record to closely approximate the mileage. The shop took my credit card number and shipped me a “rebuilt” instrument cluster from their stock. It showed the exact miles I had said. I sent the “core” to them, saving a day or two of being without any instrumentation. I’m sure it showed whatever mileage was specified by the buyer when they re-sold it. Obviously digital odometers can be altered too.
In my search for more information, I also found this example of some folks who got caught erasing miles from high mile vehicles. http://notfea.org/03/05/2012/four-men-sentenced-to-prison-for-conspiracy-for-rolling-back-car-odometers/
I’d love to hear from one ancient mechanic who actually did it with a drill. No third party. No hearsay. No brother in law’s step brother’s father in law’s second cousin once removed. I don’t think that person exists because that’s not how it was done. It would have taken DAYS, not minutes, to roll back mileage that way.
Just heresay but I have heard of this happening, the odometer was driven by a cable, and way back then 100k mikes was the end of a life expectancy.
Just heresay but I have heard of this happening, the odometer was driven by a cable, and way back then 100k mikes was the end of a life expectancy.
Yes, but I often wonder if the prevalence of speedometer rolling back by used car dealers was responsible for giving engine and car longevity a bad name.
1000 RPM at 60 MPH…That sounds awfully fast to me…More like 100 RPM…
A car’s tires spin about 800 rpm at 60 mph, more or less depending on the exact diameter.
@Caddyman Please find us a link to that effect that refutes the pair I cited above.
I don’t know what speed the old cable-driven odometers operated at, but I can tell you that my benchtop drill press can operate at over 3,000 rpm just with the 5 pulleys it came with.
One of my friends used to disconnect the sppedometer to keep the warrenty in effect longer-And we have titling issues around here on low mileage old cars(they usually wont take your word for it)-Kevin
I knew a rural mail carrier who’d drive a new car for a year, disconnect the speedo, and drive it another year before trading it in with low miles.
My parents bought an off lease Buick in 1987 that showed low miles. Once they made the deal and were driving the car home they found that someone had changed the speedo gear. At 60 MPH it only showed 42 MPH. Of course the miles were lower too.
Of course neither of those are examples of odometer rollback, just odometer fraud.
Agree with @Mustangman
I am not saying that Jay Leno is wrong or right. But, we often bring our occupations into our conversations with others. By that, I mean that a used car salesman will always try to sell you something you don’t need, and a comedian will always exaggerate something, just to get a laugh. We all have a little “used car” salesman in us and we all would like to be funny. We are all trying to sell something, if only an idea. Jay may be doing both ! Give him a break…the poor guy is out of a job. We retired guys have too much time on our hands and spend most of it explaining to others what we don’t really know and trying to make it sound like something we do. It’s called, staying relevant…Jay is doing it, like the rest of us.
Show me someone who says they have never lied, and I’ll show you a liar.
1000 rpm sounds good to me. The speedo takeoff is at the transmission, and I remember replacing the gear when it has to swap out the rear end with one with a different ratio. There was no major gear reduction at the transmission. With the engine turning 2000 rpm or so, I’d expect the cable to be around 1000 rpm.
The speedometer drive gear is driven off the transmission output shaft in older cars with mechanical instruments…As I recall, the pair of gears involved produced a big reduction in speed to the cable that drove the speedometer and odometer…
There wasn’t a big reduction on my '72 Duster’s 3 speed manual.
I'm sure mileage busting still happens, but it's a federal offense. I've never known of anyone who 'did time' for it though.
A high-school friend of mine owns a Nissan franchise rights because the previous Nissan dealer was caught rolling the OD back on several cars. The feds and state police came in and shut him down and sold off his inventory. My friend bought the inventory and the franchise rights. He owned a GMC and Pontiac dealership at the time. He had just taken over the business from his dad and wanted to expand the business. He says it was the best business decision he ever made.
Many cars from the 50’s and 60’s - you could roll back the OD by driving in reverse. Or you could disconnect the OD cable from the transmission and spin it backwards. So what Jay said can be done.
To roll back an OD today…all you need to do is go on EBay and buy a used one with lower miles.