Not dash cams now but they have plate readers that compare the plate with the registration information in a split second and store it. Off topic but I would like to see our DOJ lay off Ferguson and go after the jurisdictions that mis-use the forfeiture laws. It wouldn’t take many investigations for the word to get around-particularly if city/county/state officials were indicted.
I have two African American engineers that work for me. They get stopped by police 3-4 times a year. Never been arrested or even given a ticket. When one moved to Andover MA (very affluent White town) - he was stopped almost every week.
I was in the car in him during one of the bogus traffic stops. A little unnerving when when two officers flank you and both have their Hans on their guns. I never experienced anything like that I my life. And never want to again.
Yeah, most of us old white guys don’t know what it’s like to get pulled over for driving while black. To some degree, everyone lives in a bubble and we treat our confirmation bias as though it is evidence, when in reality, it’s mere anecdote.
Proving the existence of systemic racism in law enforcement is pretty easy. People of all races and ethnicities generally use drugs at about the same rate (12%). People of all races and ethnicities also deal drugs at about the same rate. Yet minorities are more likely to be pulled over, are more likely to be arrested for nonviolent drug crimes, are more likely to be convicted of nonviolent drug crimes, and get longer sentences than white people for the same exact nonviolent drug crimes.
To bring this back to car talk, several studies have exposed incidents where racial profiling was used in traffic enforcement. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics:
*An estimated 26.4 million persons age 16 or older indicated that their most recent contact with the police in 2011 was as a driver pulled over in a traffic stop. These drivers represented 12% of the nation’s 212 million drivers.
*A greater percentage of male drivers (12%) than female drivers (8%) were stopped by police during 2011. A higher percentage of black drivers (13%) than white (10%) and Hispanic (10%) drivers were stopped by police during 2011.
*Stopped drivers reported speeding as the most common reason for being pulled over in 2011.
*Approximately 80% of drivers pulled over by police in 2011 felt they had been stopped for a legitimate reason. In 2011, about 68% of black drivers believed police had a legitimate reason for stopping them compared to 84% of white and 74% of Hispanic drivers.
*In 2011, about 3% of traffic stops led to a search of the driver, the vehicle, or both. Police were more likely to search male drivers (4%) than female drivers (2%).
*A lower percentage of white drivers stopped by police in 2011 were searched (2%) than black (6%) or Hispanic (7%) drivers.
I got an inkling of what DWB is a few months ago. I was driving between the customer’s facility and my office. I turned onto the road my office building is on and immediately saw the lights behind me. Pretty soon there were 3 cars. One policeman approached my driver’s side, one was on the passenger side (I was alone), one was at the rear fender on the driver’s side, and there was a group back at their cars. I was stopped for a burned out tail light and given a repair order. Later I discovered that the light was not out. It would appear that the whole thing was a ruse of some sort, or the policeman just couldn’t tell that all my lights worked. I sat there for a half hour for no good reason. At least I got paid for twiddling my thumbs.
You are wrong! You don’t ever have to be even charged with a crime.
This is more of an “I shouldn’t have been stopped” than "I shouldn’t have stopped"
One morning about 0430 still very dark. I was making a left at an intersection, a cop on the intersecting road to my left saw the hot end of my cigarette going in a downward motion. Mind you my window was almost all the way up it was cold out. I was pulled over in less than 100 yards of the intersection. The cop asked if I knew why I was being stopped, I responded with “no”. He said it was for littering by throwing my cigarette out the window. He looked genuinely embarrassed when I lifted my left hand and it still had my mostly smoked cigarette in it. Yet still said he saw me throw it out. No citation was issued. Go figure.
I agree most cops are decent people. One issue they have to deal with is if they hesitate in certain cases, they get killed. If they don’t hesitate, then they are considered murderers. They don’t have more than a second to assess the situation in many cases. Then you have the whole deal with them being ambushed at gas stations going about their own business and such. This makes them even more edgy and likely to react faster.
I personally do service calls on computers and electronics. This might seem like a boring or even nerdy job but I have had more than just a few stories interacting with the general public. You get plenty of crazies on drugs, welfare and wanting everything for free, or a combination. You get some nutcase who jumps in front of your car because he won’t pay the remainder of his bill (only $35) and I took his gaming system and got right back in my car. He is screaming at me all in a rage that he is going to kill me if I don’t give the system back to him. So, I rev it up near redline and yell back “Get the hell out of my way before I pop this clutch and send you to hell personally!” He got out of the way rather quickly and I took off. Then since I am out and about I sometimes run into random crazies on the road. This is worst during the middle of the day when the unemployed derelicts are out on the road causing trouble. I had some guy on meth or similar follow me into a parking lot, block me in with his car, and threaten to kill me as well. I let him know in a very non-confrontational voice that this wouldn’t be a good idea. I think he got the idea that I had something up my sleeve or under the seat as was in this case. Luckily he backed off for both of us as I was fully ready to take action if I saw any weapons on him without hesitation.
I have had a few others but these are ones that really stand out. Situations like this used to happen to me once a month or so but I have gotten a lot better about demographic targeting and am not targeting my ads to higher income educated people and not everyone. These people make you realize what cops probably have to deal with one or more times per day!
I now have a dash cam by the way! I think this is standard issue on most cop cars these days.
Speaking of ‘‘afraid of cops’’.
When my wife’s sister’s grandsons ( great / grand nephews ? ) first moved in with us it was clear that they were pre-disposed to be afraid of any and every law enforcement person. They were merely 4 and 6 years old but their oddball parents had already jaded them . ( that is probably just part of the long story that caused them to need to be placed in our care )
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- one day they were with me here at work and afterwords they beat me to my truck around the corner by three minutes at least while I logged off and locked up.
When I left the building there was a city cop and my two boys coming up the sidewalk. You could just see the fear in there faces ! ( the older one more so ) they really thought they were being busted.
The cop says ‘’ I just saw these guys around the corner and wondered if the were alone and they said they were just waiting for you.’‘
So I thanked Andy but instantly realized something big.
’‘Andy , do you have a minute ?’’
’‘Sure, what’s up?’’
’‘I want these boys to meet the person behind the badge.’’
’‘Boys, this is Andy Yearly . .Andy, This is Isiah and Dominic.’’
’‘Boys, Andy plays guitar like I do and he’s even sung in the Country Showdown that I played back-up for. . . just a regular guy like you and me.’’
- one day they were with me here at work and afterwords they beat me to my truck around the corner by three minutes at least while I logged off and locked up.
So after much conversation ( Andy sat down on the sidewalk ! ) you could see the pre-disposed fear fade and , over time since, they have become accustomed to speaking casually to our neighbors and friends who are our law enforcement.
Soon after getting my license at age 16 I was given very good advice by my much older Brother who had lived in Southern California for over 10 years. The advice concerned being pulled over for a traffic stop. “Have your license and registration with both hands on top of the steering wheel when the officer comes to the window”. It has served me well.
I think the root cause of much of the controversy is simply because the “state” (municipal, state, or feds) so badly and so often abuses its power, as it so often does in “eminent domain” cases. The abuse of power of the “state” is appalling… and commonplace. Sadly, it badly taints the entire issue of forfeiture in legal convictions.
Note that the “state” I refer to is made up of people; courts, politicians, and lawyers. I’ll reserve my opinion of lawyers. I have good friends who are lawyers, but I’ve seen the mess that self-serving greedy lawyers have made of our systems.
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I have to admit I haven’t read all the responses but I think we use the term racism too often. Maybe its stereotyping more than racism or maybe its intuitive experience. As teenagers I think we got stopped too just because we were teenagers. I’ve watched the police approach a car with several brothers in it with guns drawn and I have to tell you from the looks of fear on their faces, it would take very little for them to open fire. Its an issue though that needs to be honestly addressed concerning why the police relate color or mannerisms with crime and the professors and lawyers get caught in the web.
Stereotypes based on race are racism. Saying blacks are beter athletes than whites is a racist remark, and opens up saying blacks are not as smart as whites because they do not hold a race-proportionate level of professional and executive jobs.
So racism is not a negative term then if all it is is using race as an identifier? Making simple statements of fact in regard to a race is racism? That’s part of the problem that you can’t discuss differences without someone coming up with the label. Old white guys are bigots is the underlying theme. Geeze, no wonder we are getting the level of leadership we deserve in DC.
So you think police just come out of the academy as racists or have they learned how to stay alive on the job due to fact and experience?
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I do not think that this would be racist at all. I see it as a compliment and a fact, and nothing else? In general that is true, at least in some sports.
See here’s the thing, I consider myself to be reasonably progressive and open minded but after a while we develop experiential conclusions that then some would call racist. We’ve hired countless minority owned businesses from printers to carpenters to janitorial services. And I have to say that in at least 80% of the cases its been a nightmare. Under-trained, under-capitalized, shoddy workmanship, and an unwillingness to correct problems. I’ve watched carpenters come in late, work a couple hours and leave again with no explanation. We were sued by a janitorial service for discrimination once because we tried to pressure them to actually vacuum and clean our building while collecting $10,000 a month. I’d hear the vacuums get turned on for 10 minutes and then quiet for a 7000 square foot wing and no one around after that. I caught one attempting to strip a floor with a boom box in one hand and a mop in the other dancing to the music. We prevailed and the cleaners that came in after were getting a full vacuum bag a day from the accumulated dirt.
So at any rate I can understand where police may have developed similar experiential concerns and opinions. Would I give them a chance? Sure. But would I be watchful? You bet. It is simply a matter of fact that will take acceptance of the stereotypes and a lot of work to overcome them. Now having a 14 million dollar a year football player not stand in support of our country does not help, nor do people publicly calling for “dead cops”. Just fact and experience not racism.
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Twenty five or so years ago I was visiting my sister in Pennsylvania. Traffic going in the other direction on the two lane road I was on was backed up from a traffic light for two or three hundred yards. That traffic, backed up from that traffic light, was blocking traffic going in my direction from making a left turn about a hundred yards back from the offending traffic light. Because there was only one lane in each direction this completely blocked traffic going in my direction. Right at this intersection there was a small sign that warned not to cross the solid white line on the right of the road, which I, along with many others either didn’t notice or ignored. So I , along with many others, drove around the cars waiting to turn left by crossing the white line on the right and driving on the shoulder. Just beyond the blockage, on the shoulder, were three police cars and a cop waving people over to the side. I stopped, the cop came up to me and told me that it was illegal to drive on the shoulder, that there was a sign posted that made that clear, and that I’d be given a ticket.
So this Pennsylvania city knows that there’s a traffic problem that backs traffic up (and pretty badly too), and rather than cure the problem they choose to post three cop cars there to write tickets as fast as they can to generate income.
The cop that talked to me was an older guy, and I think he was a sergeant in the police force. He was very clearly embarrassed to be part of such a blatant scheme, so he explained to me that because of my California license, and since Pennsylvania had (at the time, at least) no reciprocity arrangement with California, if I didn’t pay that ticket there would be absolutely nothing that the state of Pennsylvania could do about it.
I never paid it, kept out of Pennsylvania for a few years, and never heard another thing about it. I consider that cop a real stand-up, honest guy.
Last time I was in Pennsylvania I saw one of those flashing road signs looking for a guy that goes by Jay something. There was a reward. It was a fugitive alert. I lie sometimes.
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The only people I know who don’t think there’s racism are middle to upper class white people.
If you look you’ll find racism us alive and well in the US.
I don’t mean to pretend there isn’t legitimate, just that I think it is highly exaggerated. I’ll pick on Jewish folks to be fair. In high school I knew one Jewish class mate. In college I don’t think there were any since it was a Lutheran school. So when I first started work, a little ole lady went to my boss’s boss and complained that I was discriminating against her with her morning deliveries because she was Jewish, thus making it hard for her to get her job done. When I was called on the carpet I honestly said “Jewish, I didn’t know she was Jewish. I thought she was Scottish because she went to Scotland every summer.” Really, I didn’t know anything about the whole Jewish history and issues and certainly was not discriminating against anyone of that race/religion, since it was the last thing on my mind. She jumped to conclusions based on her own bias, and of course her experiences. I did make sure that she was treated way better than anybody else though after that just to make sure she felt she was fairly treated.
A few years ago I saw a sting setup on Rt 1 S just after the Rt 95 exit onto it. There is one red light on that entire 10 mile stretch to Boston, and there is a dedicated lane on the right that allows you to ignore the red light for an exit 100 ft after the light.
The cops set the light to red (I assume they did or it’s quite a coincidence) and then sat in a parking lot just before the red light.
The dedicated right lane that bypassed the light started a few hundred feet before the light and there was a wide shoulder before that.
With the traffic totally backed up behind the red light, they were watching for cars driving down the shoulder to where it turned into a real lane, for cars making that right. They just waved them into the parking lot where a bunch of cops were writing tickets.
I sat in the jamup for about 20 minutes. Then I guess they hit their quota and turned the light back to green.