My daughter got a ticket for running a red light in Amherst nh a few years ago. She said she didn’t do it and fought it. The proceedings in Amherst is you must be in court at 8am to contest the ticket. All traffic tickets aren’t heard until after 11…but you must be there at 8 or you won’t get heard at 11. Then at 11 they start the traffic tickets. At this point you just either pay your fine or plead not guilty. If you plead not guilty you then have to report back at 1 and wait for your case to get called (if it gets called). Uf your case doesn’t get called then you report back the following day and start the process all over again. Most do not get called that day. By this time everyone is really frustrated so they just pay the fine.
Many towns in New England have as part of their budget the revenue the police must collect every from traffic violations.
I once worked with a guy that had a brother-in-law working at Raytheon in the radar division. We worked in a small town in MA that was famous for handing out tickets for minor violations. (I got pulled over for doing 27 in a 25 while going downhill there.)
So this guy calls his brother-in-law, and gets the specifications for the radar unit being used in the policemen’s radar gun. He gets a topographical map of the area, and plots where his car was, where the police office was, and uses the specifications from the radar unit to calculate the margin of error for the radar based upon the range and angle from where it was being operated.
He takes photos of the road to back this up.
He notices the speed limit sign looks new, so he calls the city and pulls the maintenance records for the road that show the speed limit signs had been removed for replacement at the time he got the ticket.
He goes to court with this huge stack of printouts, diagrams, charts…the prosecutor takes one look at the stack and says we are dropping the charges.
My co-worker was still unhappy, even though he won, because he didn’t get the chance to walk them through his elaborate presentation.
I think just about everyone has gotten a bs ticket at least once in their life. Unfortunately these are the ones that really piss you off and make you jaded about the system. Yes, the local kangaroo courts are rigged as well. I called in to the court after getting one that was completely unfair (no speed limit signs so he made it up). They basically responded that there is a hearing date on the ticket and to show up for that if you want to fight it. They wouldn’t hear that it was wrong over the phone. This would have been a MULTIDAY process. One day you show up and plead not guilty. You leave and then come back another day to finish with the hearing. I seem to remember that there was some other part of this where you had to show up 3 times total. Since this would have been more of a pain then just paying and pleading guilty, that is what I did. Even if I had fought it and won, there would have been the court costs so they would have won anyway. This type of crap isn’t about justice. It is about money.
I live in Missouri where this ticket happened. Of course me and every other person out there is pretty sick of hearing about Ferguson and all that nonsense but one thing that was mentioned in one of those reports was “policing for profit”. That isn’t a black and white issue if you ask me. EVERYONE has gone through this and something should be done to stop it. Most cops are decent but a few are in some small town that gives all the tickets to out of towners, just wants to meet a quota for traffic tickets while doing little to stop actual crime, etc.
Then you have the whole deal with civil forfeiture. This is unconstitutional if you ask me. If you are selling drugs out of a car, your car was used in a crime so they can just take it with no due process. Using your home to sell drugs? They can take that too. One of the most high profile incident recently in MO is related to the newest state park called Echo Bluff. This is along a scenic stretch of rivers that is mostly park land. The area now called Echo Bluff used to be a kids’ camp and after that it became a concert venue for Greatful Dead tribute bands and the like. The state and feds all had the surrounding land so had been eyeing this property for decades to complete the stretch of government land along the rivers. No one would ever sell or give it up willingly.
Well, the government decided to take it. Since no Greatful Dead concert would be complete without some of the stuff Willie Nelson talks about, and the owner of the property didn’t do anything to stop this, they came up with charges of him using the property to facilitate drug use. Basically he was given the choice of spending a very long time in prison or giving up his land and going free. The system was used for legal extortion if you ask me but I guess we have an incredible new state park out of the deal (it opened like 2 weeks ago) so I guess I will go enjoy it the next time I am in the area.
Our Constitutional protection against Civil Forfeiture is in Amendment IV, and states “The right of the people to be secure in heir persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probably cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized”.
This does not prohibit civil forfeiture as a consequence of a criminal conviction.
Hey, if a state can take a property with a home by force through “eminent domain” for the building of a shopping mall, they should be able to take cars and properties as a consequence of conviction of a felony!
Civil forfeiture has occurred without ANY conviction many times. Someone with a lot of cash had it seized because there was no reason someone not involved in criminal activity would have that much cash on hand. They had to PROVE it wasn’t criminal in order to get it back and even that was a difficult task. I suggest looking up civil forfeiture abuse and you will understand.
I guess it kinda ticks you off when I drive past some neighbors up the road who are known thieves and have a mountain of stolen property outside in plain view of a busy US highway where all those who have been ripped off can see. Yes, they have plenty of past and pending charges against them for theft, drugs, and you name it but seem to keep getting away with this. Someone I know had a riding mower and table saw stolen and got a portion of their truck on a game camera. They drove past the property and could clearly see their stuff sitting there in newly unloaded batch of stuff. The owner had serial numbers and such but the police took their time with this and the stuff had been resold or broken down for scrap by that time. I guess it kinda ticks you off when ordinary people are looked at as criminals over trivial stuff but then these types are allowed to go free time after time. They also have figured out a way to really work the system on certain levels.
For example, they now always go out on their stealing missions with a truck towing a trailer. The trailer is stolen of course and not in their name. This way they put NONE of the stolen good in their truck and simply disconnect the trailer full of loot when the cops are called. The trailer doesn’t trace back to them so there is nothing “official” linking them to the theft.
Anyone in business for themselves has to deal with this from time to time. Some deadbeat customer comes in threatening you and you know they have been through this drill a million times. Unfortunately it seems the laws protect these people, not those who work for an honest living.
. .’’ twenty seven eight by ten color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explainin’ what each one was ‘’. .
Yeah I agree with the forfeiture issue. Started out as a good idea and gone bad. It needs to be thrown out. I think way back it was the DNR that started it with confiscating guns and fishing boats if you violated the game laws. Now if you want some rude people, that’s where you’ll find them. Still waiting for two years for a call back from the local game warden.
cwatkin stated “without due process” and is referring to seizure of property prior to a conviction. Theoretically the property would be returned if the trial does not result in a conviction. Far too many times it is not.
Just saw an interesting speeder and cop event this morning.
Four lane highway. Saw a trooper pull out of a crossover and take after a car in the fast lane ahead of him. Put on his blinker, etc.
Speeder car changed lanes to the right, then cut in front of a truck in the next lane and then to the shoulder. I was behind the truck, there may have been someone behind me.
The trooper was stuck, he could not get over to the shoulder until well past the speeder. And he would have to speed up a lot to get past the truck in any reasonable time. he decided this was unsafe and turned off his lights.
Although I saw him a bit down the highway making a U turn at one of the crossovers, perhaps he was going to try to go back to where the speeder pulled over. But I doubt he would still be there.
On the same trip, saw a small sedan with something sticking out the left rear window, looked like the handle of a lawn mower. Stuck out about 3 feet, a real hazard. The driver (female) was driving along like there was nothing unusual, sometimes to the left of her lane…
I took Criminal Justice courses in college years ago, as electives. One of the teachers told us the most common contact the public has with cops is with a traffic cop, and the experience, good or bad, clouds forever their view of the police.
I am 74, and have never had a speeding ticket. I retired in 1997 and have driven 350,000 miles since then. But, can’t tell off hand how many miles in my lifetime.
No, the forfeitures are not limited to people convicted or even charged with a crime. Not long ago, someone here posted that two news organizations investigated and found the cops STEAL more every year than the crooks do. They find money, even small amounts, decree it is drug money, and give you a forfeiture paper and it is theirs. No evidence at all.
People try to sue and the judges tell them they have to go through the entire legal process, typically costs around $30,000 so for small amounts it is not practical to sue to the end.
I have been stopped twice, once in MS and once in KY, with no cause whatsoever. Which is illegal but they do it anyway. I am much less afraid of police in Mexico than in the USA.
Many people are deluded, imagining it cannot happen in the USA. “You are not telling the whole story” is a common ad hominem attack when telling about this.
I no longer drive at night when going across the USA.
With your limited contact with the police, I am surprised that you are afraid of the police in the US. I have never had a bad experience with the police in my life.
I don’t know about the news story you mentioned, but it seems to generalize the story across all of America’s police is a little stretched…Actually, a lot stretched. Sure, there are bad cops, just like there are bad car repairman.
I’m not at all afraid of the police in the U.S., have (had) many friends over the years who were cops, and realize and appreciate the difficulty and the dangers of the job they do. The overwhelming majority are just doing the best they can in carrying out their mandates and orders. But, as with any population, there are those who aren’t on the up & up as well as some commanders giving bad orders. That’s compounded by the fact that in small towns the police department is sometimes looked at as a revenue source. While the damage that bad cops and bad leadership do cannot be overstated, that last issue is probably the biggest source of problems. Law enforcement agencies should never be used as revenue generators.
Overall I think most cops do a great job. But the few bad ones are well enough distributed that most drivers eventually have an interaction with one. But if you understand that the first priority is to make the cop feel safe and to cooperate, you’ll have much more successful interactions. Their job is a dangerous one. Let them know they’re not in any danger and they’ll usually relax and can be downright decent. People who are afraid of cops often have a reason to be or turn the situation into one of confrontation, wherein the cop goes into defensive mode. This is not an accusation, just an observation.