Boy I sure miss good old R-12


I have been told this by my wife, frirnds, coworkers, and a marriage consoler.

I am frustrated with some current events, the biggest thing that triggered me is it was so hot out the other day and the work truck ac is sooooo pathetic and undersized, and my car or truck isn’t much better.

The systems are working as designed, but they are undersized.

R12 was a better refrigerant. Period. Maybe it put a hole in the ozone layer, maybe it didn’t but systems were innefficient, took 7lbs of r12, but by God they blew 34 degrees of artic air and could freeze everyone out.

I have great ac in my house, we oversized the unit and can get my house to 63 degrees on a 100 degree day if I wish.


What kind of vehicles do you drive? Most of the vehicles that I’ve owned with R-134a do a fine job of cooling the car. And I like things on the cool side as well. I tend to keep my house at 70 degrees in the summer. Also when it comes to HVAC in buildings, bigger isn’t necessarily better, any mechanical engineer will tell you this.


I sympathize.

Stop taking out your frustrations in the form of trolling us.

Yep. Your car sucks, alright. You should get a better one.


I did? Singlehandedly no less…
Personally, I think that leap might be equivalent to those superman is purportedly capable of accomplishing but at least it puts me in good company.

Seriously though, you can’t be serious…


In my longing for the good 'ole days, I disable the power steering in every car I drive. Hertz hates me…


We owned a 1993 Olds 88 with automatic temperature control which was about the last year R-12 was used​. We replaced the 1993 Olds with a new 2003 Toyota 4Runner with automatic temperature control which uses the R134A refrigerant. One system worked as well as the other–both cool the car well.
I remember the days when air conditioning in a car was rare and a real luxury. That was true in residence houses and commercial buildings as well. I spent two summers in the early 1960s as a graduate student. None of us owned an air conditioned car nor were our sleeping rooms air conditioned. The buildings where my classes were held weren’t air conditioned. Believe me, Southern Illinois is not only hot in the summer, but also very humid. There was no way I could air condition the room I rented. The entire house ran on one twenty ampere fuse and the wiring was the old knob and tube. To make matters worse, the only air conditioned building on campus was the library and the summer I was doing my research to complete my degree, the air conditioning went out in the library and was down for two weeks. It was over one hundred degrees in the stacks. I would work for an hour, then go outside and drink a cold drink where it was a cool 90 degrees and go back and hit it again. Somehow, we all survived without air conditioning back then. I sure couldn’t do it today.


A/C is a relative luxury around the world. Our daughter went to Germany for a summer immersion course at the University of Freiburg. These classy dorms were solid stone and not air conditioned. it was a particularly hot summer and she really suffered, being used to A/C in today’s residences.

I remember renting a car in Germany in the early 80s and only some luxury models were available with air. The Ford Escort I rented had a 1.1 liter engine, no power steering, stick shift and no air of course.


I’ve always thought the best argument against the widely accepted ozone hole theory is: why did the ozone hole problem appear to be worse in the southern hemisphere than the northern? You’d think if it was the use of refrigerators and AC systems in cars and basic industrial activity, that would be worse in the northern hemisphere. I think I recall somebody telling me that hypothesis is just plain wrong, there’s actually more use of those chemicals in the southern hemisphere than the northern.


Well let’s just remember Germany lost the war. We didn’t. Just like their small refrigerators over there, and the fact ice isn’t a given in your beverage.

America is the greatest nation on earth. Let’s not forget that. Thankfully we finally have a president that doesn’t think that we need to make America into a third world country. That’s one thing I like about President Trump


I used your logic to come up with a theory.


I made a statement that most disagree with. There are a few that agree here and have stated so.

Just because I say something you don’t like doesn’t make me a troll.

Fact- r12 was a superior refrigerant that may or my not have has environmental impact.


Yep. Just like coal. It’s being burnt at a greater rate than it ever has, just not in our country. We are shipping coal to China to burn in their 3rd world power plants instead of our first class, environmentally friendly state of the art coal plants.

Makes sense to me.


Top expert scientists have proved that we didn’t cause the hole if there even is one. The links you posted make a good fiction read, but in the end it’s fake news


Whether you agree or disagree I ask you watch this video based on real life data from top scientific and analytical minds.

The reason r12 and r22 freon was banned? Money, pure and simple.

It’s the same reason drunk driving hasn’t been stopped. There’s more money in people drinking than saving lives taken by murderous drunk drivers.
These politicians have businesses to run and money to make. Bottoms up!


That’s not the way the scientific method works. Science doesn’t provide answers with 100% certainty. There;s always doubt remaining. So it is always easy to find “scientific minds” who’ll be willing to cast doubt. Here’s the thing: Anyone who thinks they have something to add to a scientific theory, either furthering it, or disproving it, they are free to submit their experimental data and analysis to respected refereed science journals. If they’ve done their homework, taken into account all the variables, a controlled unbiased experiment, good chance their data and analysis will be published by the respected journal. Then other scientists will have a chance to rebut the article. I expect the “minds” to which you refer have not done that.


Rick, I hate to burst your bubble . . .

But the Germans are NOT living in squalor

In fact, their standard of living was quite high . . . I’m admittedly NOT sure about conditions right now . . . higher than in the USA, at times

Sure, they’re not driving lifted 4x4 F250s, guzzling super big gulps and gobbling double whoppers every day, but they generally did quite well for themselves

I’m not an economist, but I believe there are ways to measure a country’s standard of living, and many developed countries which you probably do NOT admire are higher on the list than this one

I love this country, the same as you, but I’m not about to go overboard, saying the kind of things you do. I’ll say even though this country has its flaws . . . as does ANY country . . . I chose to live here, and won’t be leaving. Does that make me some kind of bad person, because I don’t think this place is perfect? No, it means I’m a normal human being

let’s be reasonable and keep things in perspective

It’s not all black and white, but I guess for you that doesn’t apply

I think for you it IS all black and white

It’s either good or evil, right or wrong, etc.

Absolutely no middle ground

Yeah, I think I’ve got your number now :dart:


NASA = fake
Cranks on YouTube = reality
Got it!


Hi. Gentle reminder - could we please try to keep this close to car subjects? Towards the end it looks like it’s starting to stray. Thanks.


Drunk driving, drug use etc. cannot be stopped, only mitigated, look at the black market of anything, the faster you close your grip the faster they squeeze between your fingers. I think your analysis of more money in people drinking is not proved out by DUI regulations. Now to other things as I have done my car related part, Were you alive in the 70’s when cities had air quality problems and berries along side the road were considered inedible from the lead from leaded gasoline, and dirt roads were sprayed with dioxin for dust control, coal power plants were not required to have pollutants such as mercury removed,


Those things were terrible. Lead gas in automobiles poisoned the air. No excuse. But not r12s fault.

Maybe r134a is a good refrigant, some here posted that it’s not, but let’s say it is. I want my car to have a huge ac system that has such capacity it will freeze you out on a 95 degree day parked on full sun on blacktop.