Boy I sure miss good old R-12


I don’t lose sleep over ozone depletion being caused by CFCs or natural chlorine. The debate was the usual political pixxxxg contest with each side trying to out whopper the other.


How do the CFC’s get up so high? Isn’t that just a basic gas diffusion process? The air molecules, all of them vibrate like crazy, and that motion seriously bumps into other molecules and forces the molecules to drift. Some drift up, some drift down, some left, some right. The force of the other molecules hitting the CFC molecule I expect is much much more than the force of gravity on the CFC molecule, right? Anyone can do the math on that. comparing the force of gravity vs the force of being whacked by another molecule. It’s the other molecules in the air, their powerful vibrations, that drive the process that causes the diffusion to occur. I made myself a combo mango and lemonade drink today, mixed the two parts together, the lemon molecules didn’t drop to the bottom and the mango molecules float on top. They mixed together uniformly.


You’re right, it mixes, and only some of the CFC molecules go up. Sunlight then breaks them down, producing chlorine. One chlorine atom can destroy thousands of molecules of ozone. So, not all that much of what’s released by human activity needs to make it up there to cause problems, especially when you consider how much of it humans released.


So what about chlorine gas from pools and water treatment? Does that not hurt the ozone layer?


Ozone hole=fake news.

Besides, no matter what I don’t care. Bring back r12, and r22.

Puron sucks as does 134a. This is America and we smoke and drink and eat big macs and drive gas guzzling monstrosities. I want ice cold ac. Not cold, ICE cold, and I don’t care the so called effects. The


Well we didn’t repair the hole, it magically repaired itself. I mean did we send folks up there to patch it? It’s fake news. There is as much proof that it’s false.

So mother earth is self healing?


Chlorine in pools is not in a gaseous state. You can tell this because the swimmers aren’t all hospitalized. You might get away with showing off your anti-intellectual bents on anti-vax sites, but the posters here are generally a little too gifted in the brains department to fall for such BS.

Why are you trolling a car site?


Yes yes yes! Thank our lucky stars for our good old pal, CFCs!

CFCS are green, they got a bad rap from people spreading fake news. There was a lot of money to be made by banning cfcs and now that we have spent billions on an inferior product, we are told more fake news that the hole is fixing itself.

There was no hole to begin with. How can a gas have a hole in it anyway?


Rick, you’re stuck in the past

And I also think you’re the type of guy who’s not happy unless he’s whining about something

You’ve been on a rampage the last few days. That is a fact

I know it’s not any of my business, but I’m wondering if something bad happened, and you’re just letting off steam . . .


That link is from Rebel Media.
That news site is well known, but not for its accurate news reporting.


You’re forgetting about atmospheric mixing. Just thermals alone- how do you think hang gliders get up so high and stay there for hours on end? Then there are pressure differentials creating up and down drafts too. How do you think hail is formed? The atmosphere is very dynamic…


What are you talking about? The ozone hole is still there, read more here (though I doubt you’d use a actual science-based site):
And watch it here:


OP’s biggest problem is his smoking. But it’s a benefit to everyone whose air he doesn’t pollute.

Ammonia is still used as the refrigerant on large installations, whole buildings refrigerated to store meat, other foods. It’s more efficient than freon and way cheaper - but spills are dangerous so have to be monitored. And it’s the refrigerant in propane refrigerators which rely on its latent heat of solution: a propane flame boils ammonia out of water, which is then allowed to cool to room temperature (or near) then absorbs heat when water reabsorbs it.

And may cure itself of its infestation of humans.

I remember seeing signs in out-of-the-way places near the Mexican border advertising R-12; perhaps a trip to Mexico can cure your R-12-ness. You can make our atmosphere as healthy as you make your lungs.

Propane is an effective refrigerant; try charging you AC with it. (Joke! When it leaks your engine will catch on fire, why it isn’t used as a refrigerant. Freon is ethane with chlorine and fluorine replacing many of the hydrogens, which makes it not flammable.)

I saw an evaporative cooler on a car; it was mounted in the window and caught the wind.


Ammonia is still used widely in industrial and commercial refrigeration. strict leak detection methods are used.



You are aware that the earth has a magnetosphere? Do you know what would happen without it? The solar wind would send our atmosphere out into the cosmos. These two things are constantly interacting with each other to alter and distort our atmosphere but are in somewhat of a stalemate now.

How can there be a hole in the atmosphere? Imagine water running down a drain. See that tornado like whirlpool in the middle? Notice the void of water in the center descending down to the drain itself? How can there be a void of water in the middle of a sink full of it???

There are many factors affecting our atmosphere, both external and internal.

The earth is an incredibly complex captive environment with us infesting its surface. It has reached a state of relative equilibrium but is constantly evolving albeit over such a large span of time, it seems almost frozen to us. There are mechanisms that are at work that help maintain this equilibrium. For example, if skies are less clouds and more sunny, the algae in the oceans flourishes, This causes more absorption of sunlight and heats the water, causing more evaporation and therefore more clouds, This then lowers the amount of sunlight and the algae is reduced…the good news for us is that this system is large and therefore takes a lot of energy to disrupt the natural cycles. Unfortunately, only man has the intelligence (or lack thereof) to find ways of screwing it up. The earth will survive regardless, the question will be; will the result be conducive to human inhabitation?


The problem isn’t the refrigerant. Keep looking for the cause if you want to solve this problem, because you have an issue other than the type of refrigerant in the system.


You just proved global warming die to coal burning to be a lie.

So we burn coal, this creates greenhouse gas, which heats up earth…but the huge amount of water vapor emitted by plant cooling towers will create clouds and block sunrays, sooo… the net effect is zero?

Again global warming=fake news.


Again it’s not one vehicle, it’s about 6 or 7 including two brand new rental cars.

I want a that can bring the car down to 50 degrees inside like the old gms. Not merely just make it comfortable. Why? Cause you know. 'Murica


I mentioned that I don’t smoke, can’t stand secondhand smoke either. But it seems that I should start to prove a point.

Anyway it seemed America was a better place when you could load up the family station wagon, powered by a 460, have 34 degree air from the vents from r12, drive to McDonald’s and get big macs for the entire family in Styrofoam containers and everyone was smoking because there were ashtrays everywhere.

The whole circus was stopped by 4 wheel drum brakes on top of it.

Now people drive like overstimulated chimpanzees, and I don’t know the reason. It just seems when people all smoked they were all calmer


My former Brother in-law lives in McAllen, TX. A/C is pretty much required. He always drove to Reynosa, Mexico for automotive service and repairs. Following the R-12 ban nothing changed for him. Plentiful supply at the old prices in Mexico.