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Boy I sure miss good old R-12

Well the heat is picking up here and the ac in newer vehicles is not what it used to be let me tell you. If the car is heat soaked you have to roll the windows down for 10 minutes and then run the ac on recirculation full blast and then maybe by the time you get to where your going it will finally be cool enough that your not sweating, but you will still have it full bore.

Now let’s compare a 1977 ford Ltd. You could get in the vehicle fire up the ac and by the time you finished a smoke it was cold inside. It was like a blast of artic air. And then you had an ashtray as well.

If you left the ac on in the Ltd full blast too long you would end up freezing it was so cold.

I know those old compressors required a lot of hp to turn, so what. I want to be cool in my car. This is America and as far as I know we didn’t lose no wars.

Bring back R-12 Now!

I have also fpwarded this to the Potus, and ceo of ford.

I’ve owned a 2009 Ford Focus SE, 2005 Chrysler T&C, 2001 Solara, 1994 Saturn…never had A/C problems with any of them. Definitely doesn’t take 10 minutes to get nice cold air, not even the T&C with both front and back fans running!


Thanks for the reminder. I have several cans of R12 that I sell off each summer when it gets hot. Guess now is a good time to renew that ad.

Well the POTUS apparently doesn’t read and the CEO of Ford is bound by environmental regulations that was a waste of time.


The AC in my R134 Acura TL blows cold. I don’t smoke because I like a cancer-free lifestyle, but it takes less time than my emphysematic grandmother takes to smoke a cigarette for the AC to have it down to 70.

The AC in my 1993 MR2 was R12, and I had it converted several years back to R134. I can’t run it on high for very long without getting much too cold.

If your AC isn’t cooling properly, it’s not because of the R134. It’s either because the system is designed poorly or because you have a leak and have lost enough coolant to render the system ineffective.

With the exception of Vietnam, Korea, Red Cloud’s War, Laos, Bay of Pigs, Lebanon, Somalia, the Russian civil war, the Powder River War, and the War of 1812, you’re absolutely right. :wink:



What’s with all the 1812 revisionists? I know it was “winning ugly,” what with the White House being burned and all, but we gained territory as a result of that war (from Spain? Whatever…) AND we received over ONE MILLION DOLLARS {/evil} in war reparations from Great Britain. (Granted, they were reparations for…freed slaves, but reparations are reparations, whatever the source!) And, while the Treaty of Ghent didn’t mention it explicitly, the War of 1812 forever ended GB’s “impressment” of US sailors, and other sorts of “not treating us like a real country.”

Typically, when one country gains land, and gets cash from the other country it was fighting, it’s tallied as a victory.


I bet this is the only car forum where a debate on 19th century military/diplomatic history can break out. :smiley:

The Treaty of Ghent was essentially enacted because Great Britain got bored and wanted to go home. We started the war mainly because we wanted land in Canada, and because we wanted to stop British impressment of neutral US sailors. We failed to take any Canadian land except part of Ontario which we were made to give back (we also had to give Spanish Florida territory back to Spain, and they kindly gave it back to us in the 1819 Adams-Onis treaty), and as you said, the treaty made no mention of impressment. As we failed to achieve our objectives when starting the war, we lost. That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it! :wink:

I’m sorry but I don’t understand what winning or losing wars has to do with Freon.

You have an a/c system problem, not a Freon problem. Mine work fine here in Dallas.


What is your outside temperature and humidity? What is the temperature of the air coming out of the vents after a few minutes at that time?

My accord with a black leather interior in 90 degree weather takes a few minutes to cool down, but after about 5 minutes its comfortable.

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My grandfather didn’t sit in a pow camp for 1 year back in ww2 so we would have to sweat in 2017. That’s the point. R134 works, but there is a product that works better and we won’t use it.

We are going backwards. At the end of a hard workday I want ice cold ac.

I’ve got a 16 year old black Saab in Florida (it is 96 F/72 % humidity here today!) running R134 with a crappy European designed AC and IT doesn’t take that long to get cool!

I don’t smoke either, can’t stand it in fact, but back in the 70s everyone smoked and everyone had ac cold enough to freeze meat.

Now we have systems that are watered down.

94 degrees, 65 percent humidity. I got 45 degrees out of vents.

I’m not saying R134 don’t work, I’m saying it doesn’t work as well as r12. R12 blew colder.

It just depends. My '95 Suburban (first year with R134) was terrible, but my '96 ES300 was GREAT. Many new cars I rent/own are GREAT. What’s your make/model/year?

Are You SURE this is car related???

i agree with texases. If the 134 isn’t cooling right you have a system issue, not a 134 issue.

I’ve done a lot of conversions and the A/C worked great with 134.

The best example was my old Mercury Sable. After replacing the compressor I went to 134 and with a little tinkering the A/C was putting out sub 25 degree air; and that’s on a 100+ degree day here in OK. Generally speaking, if you get a 50 or 60 degree drop over the ambient temp you’re doing fine.
Usually after 15 minutes on the road there were complaints of turn it down; we’re freezing.

It’s safe to say that neither side really won the War of 1812. Vietnam, on the other hand was a clear loss in spite of Richard Nixon’s “Peace with Honor”.

General MacArthur’s famous warning (after Korea): “Don’t start a land war in Asia” meant nothing to L B J. who bravely engaged in the Tonkin Gulf Resolution in order to out-hawk Barry Goldwater’s “Better Dead than Red”.