In a capitalist economy, that’s all the explanation you need.
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How much tooling and setup is involved in selling the paper filter element without the can, threaded base, bypass valve and core?
There’s also the enclosure that encapsulates the filter element, the base for that and all of the associated bits and pieces of hardware involved in the system. In the beginning, they can try recouping those costs as well through agreements with the various parts suppliers.
That’s in addition to the element itself. Although the element is simpler, it is not free to develop the production machines to fabricate the parts…in the end, it should be less expensive to produce but I think we’re still on the rising side of the curve…
Isn’t it funny how things work? I get to work this morning and the first ticket I get is an oil change/50K service on a Toyota Avalon with a cartridge filter. And as I’m replacing it with oil running down my wrist I think, boy, I sure prefer the Chevrolet cartridge filters. They’re on the side of the block under the intake, where a guy can change it standing straight up.
Not sure I buy that. First off oil filters are built by oil filter companies…not auto manufacturers. Plus several companies are now using this type of filter so the tooling cost is spread across several companies. And there’s material reduction - which in this case is significant.
I agree there probably is some retooling costs involved. But I still don’t think it justifies the cost of the filters.
Look at the cost of cabin air filters. Those too are outrageously priced.
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Agree with you on that. Not only the cost of the filter if you DIY, but the obscenely high charge from dealers if they replace it.
Yeah I agree on the cabin and air filters. For both its close to $50 for Honda parts. I really don’t think much about the cost of oil filters. If I buy the 6 pack on the net its a little over $5 for Honda filters. If I run short and go to the dealer its $10 but its only every 5000 miles so not a big deal.
I wouldn’t count the spin-on filters out just yet
We have received several new Exploders and Fusions in our fleet
They all use spin-on filters
We also have some new GMC Terrains in our fleet . . . also a spin-on filter
I have yet to see a brand new gasoline engine GM or Ford truck that doesn’t have a spin-on filter
I don’t doubt that such a vehicle exists, but I haven’t seen one in our fleet yet
I get fliers from my Toyota dealer with coupons for oil changes and cabin air filter changes. With the coupon they want to charge me $80. I can buy an OEM Denso filter for $30. It takes me less the 5 minutes to replace.
For less than $30, I can buy a 20 x 30" filter for my house that has a filtration rating of 2200. The 7x8" cabin filter is rated around 500.
[quote=“db4690, post:9, topic:96019, full:true”]
Go to Pep Boys
Find your oil filter
Then walk over to the oil filter wrench section, and match the filter up with the tool
Walk up to the counter
Pay the man :
Done
[/quote]This is exactly the procedure I use when customers are looking for an application-specific wrench. Except the Pep Boys part, of course. And I’m the man they pay.
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Kinda takes all the fun out of talking about filter tools though. Brings to mind though those dang Fram filters with the wrinkle finish on the bottom that I used on the kids car way back. Seemed like the filter tool didn’t want to fit over that rough finish. Maybe that was their way of saying hand tighten-fat chance.
Get in the zone . . . ?!
I don’t know how this go to cabin air filters but seems like quite a few are overpaying for them. I buy them online from Amazon and usually bellow $10-15 depending on the car.
I am too cheap to have Amazon prime, but batch purchase my stuff to get the free shipping.
Are they OEM filters though?
Who cares if the cabin air filter is OEM? It’s gotta be one of the least-critical parts on the car…
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[quote=“db4690, post:31, topic:96019, full:true”]
I think the Mobil 1 spin-on filters have a hex, but they’re EXTREMELY expensive
I don’t buy them
[/quote]No, they don’t. K&N filters do, however. Much more expensive than the other brands at AutoZone.
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Ha, that’s actually pretty funny! Of course car companies don’t make filters Mike, along with a whole host of parts that go into a car. But the company that contracts with the component house HAS TO PAY FOR THE COSTS OF DEVELOPMENT. It’s either treated as NRE or amortized over the cost of the components (or sometime a combination of the two). The filter manufacturer isn’t doing that for free.
Secondly, not once in my entire career has a component manufacturer said, hey, your competition already paid for this fancy schmancy custom machine to make their filters so you’re in luck! No charge to you. Not quite. Like other industries they charge everybody coming to the door unless your filter happens to be EXACTLY the same and it’s not proprietary. But then, look at the oil filter shelf and that should answer the chances of that happening…
And there’s material reduction - which in this case is significant.
I agree there probably is some retooling costs involved. But I still don’t think it justifies the cost of the filters.
Already addressed these aspects but we can disagree on it of course.
Look at the cost of cabin air filters. Those too are outrageously priced.
This I happen to agree with 100% and a good point. These are nothing short of highway robbery.
I deal with engineering tool costs with venders almost yearly. We were looking at a new design of a specialized part for our telecom equipment. Several companies were already making it. But we wanted to stay with our existing vendor. However he hadn’t upgraded tooling to produce that piece for us. So his quoted price was 3-4 times what other vendors were charging. They already had the tooling and been buikding the oart for other companies for a few years.
Tooling costs could be very high for the filter. I don’t know. But I doubt it’s that high. Second that cost is spread over the number of units built. There are MILLIONS every year.
I agree there will be a cost increase, but not at the level we’re seeing.
Lastly - the filter material for the canister filters is not that different then the cartridge filters. I’d be surprised the that part of the manufacturing is significantly different. The final assembly of maying the filter element to the canister is eliminated.
After doing a little research (I mean very little…2 minutes with google). I found several sites that actually show the manufacturing process of cartridge and canister filters. The filter manufacturing is virtually identical in both applications…with a little difference in the final process.
I’m now convinced that the prices are even much higher then they should be. A whole step and a lot of material is being eliminated from the new cartridge filter. I’m convinced they are significantly cheaper to make, yet they cost the same to the consumer.
This isn’t anything new in any industry. Not much we can do about it…but complain. You can keep defending them if you want. Won’t change my opinion.
Search the evidence for yourself. It’s easy to find.
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