What is going on with the "poor reception" of the VinFast VF8?

General Discussion
1

This is a car that as an American have never really heard of too much. I might have heard of the brand VinFast before.

“VinFast LLC is a Vietnamese-founded, Singaporean-based private automotive company. Established in 2017 in Hải Phòng, it is a member of the conglomerate organization Vingroup, one of the largest private conglomerates in Vietnam that was founded by Phạm Nhật Vượng.”

It is rare for a car brand from a developing country to be sold in the US. But when VinFast entered the US and unveiled the VF8, it was panned by critics. It was quoted by Wikipedia as one of the cars with “poor reception”. Car and Driver gave it a 6/10 and put it in 12th place compared to other EV SUVs. Some reviewers gave the title as one of the “worst reviewed vehicles currently available”.

Sure, I will never buy or possibly drive this car, but I was wondering what is going on with the “worst” title and all the negative reception? Reason why I am asking this is that this is a car I am unaware of.

So, some questions to add on to this question:

  1. What is your opinion on the VinFast VF8?
  2. Why is it panned as the “worst reviewed” EV?
  3. How will future sales be in affect for VinFast in the US?
  4. If another car brand sold in a developing country comes into the US, will it always be hated by critics and seen as the “worst”?
2

We already discussed this Vietnamese EV… to death… about 7 months ago…

… and… again… 5 months ago:

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We already discussed this Vietnamese EV… to death … about 7 months ago…

I don’t know if I mentioned this, but I have been on CarTalk for less than 3 months. So I am pretty late to the party here.

who test-drove these vehicles stated that they were HIGHLY flawed

What was the flaws specifically? Like I said, I am unaware about this car.

4

This is simple. The price has to be low enough to reflect the fact that there’s a big risk that the quality might be poor and that the company might not even survive to provide service. In the case of VinFast, it isn’t.

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This is simple. The price has to be low enough to reflect the fact that there’s a big risk that the quality might be poor and that the company might not even survive to provide service. In the case of VinFast, it isn’t.

I am not trying to defend VinFast and their negative reception, but isn’t that the problem with FCA/Stellantis today? Some of their cars are literally the category you mention:

big risk that the quality might be poor

company might not even survive to provide service

And Mitsubishi included.

6

Here’s a recent article (May 13, 2023) that explains the myriad of problems with the VF8. The basic problem is that it is not ready for sale or lease. There are too many unresolved issues. BTW, it isn’t for sale, only lease. There were some things the author liked and they are at the end of the article.

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7

If you read the article in the first link that I posted, it should answer all of your questions.

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The difference in the probable life expectancy of FCA/Stellantis and VinFast is… huge. Even Mitsubishi continues to sell well in other parts of the world, even though they are circling the bowl at this point in The US.

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If you read the article in the first link that I posted, it should answer all of your questions.

I read the article.

There are some things I would like to point out here:

“I had heard from other automotive journalists that initial driving impressions on the VF8 revealed a very unfinished product. Still, I vowed to keep an open mind: Vehicle development is a process, and VinFast’s hosted events had been going on for nearly three months. Lots of improvements can happen in a short amount of time, and the brand is obsessed with moving fast. I reminded myself there was a real possibility that VinFast would have a much more complete vehicle for us to look over.”

Unfinished products or products that have an initial year of problems isn’t nothing new. Like the reviewer mentioned, improvements can be made in a car from time to time. If Car X from 2014 had a problem (electrical issues, mechanical flaws, malfunctions in infotainment systems, etc.), sometimes the 2015 model can have the issues worked out in a new model year, facelift, or redesign. Is it possible for VinFast to do this with the VF8 in 2024 or 2025 or future products?

“Ms. Le insisted that, although VinFast remained committed to the battery subscription plan, the company had decided to add a purchase option. That was news to me; even when I confirmed my flight tickets, the batteries were still subscription-only. I checked the VinFast website on my phone. Sure enough, the company had quietly added a battery purchase option, and raised the price of the cars. As of this writing, a base VF8 starts at $42,200, or $57,000 if you decide to purchase the battery outright; the VF9 will start at $57,500 with a battery subscription, rising to $76,000 if you buy the battery. Yikes.”

How will people react to the battery subscription by VinFast? BMW charged subscriptions for Apple CarPlay/Android Auto 6-7 years ago and heated seats quite recently outside of North America. Now, my question is not saying that BMW should receive the same shame that VinFast got for subscriptions, but the point of the question is that how will consumers take the battery subscriptions?

In BMW’s case, the car enthusiasts’ reception to those subscriptions were “harsh” and “poorly received”. However BMW’s buyers didn’t bat an eye.

Is it possible for there to be specific VinFast buyers that would not care about battery subscriptions?

“I couldn’t help but recall Tran Van Hoang, a Vietnamese automotive YouTuber who was visited by police and sued by VinFast after expressing complaints about his Lux A2.0 sedan.”

Would that spark hatred to VinFast if US buyers and the US public found out about this?

“The ride and handling were even worse. As VinFast bussed us from place to place, I noticed that company reps would always follow us in a few VF8s. Much of Vietnam’s highway system is brand-new and very smooth, but the VF8s were constantly bounding up and down, with poor suspension control that was visible from the bus. I shooed it away, figuring that the VinFast team was driving development mules that didn’t represent the near-final cars I was under the impression we would be driving.”

I am not trying to defend VinFast once again, but isn’t “handling” and “suspension” the last thing an EV SUV buyer cares about?

“VinFast reps had bragged about beating their own internal timelines in getting these cars ready for mass production, and judging by the smiles on their faces, it seems like they were all genuinely psyched to show off a product they believed was ready to go toe-to-toe with established automakers. Instead, I’d been flown 8,000 miles to tootle around in a car that clearly wasn’t anywhere near done. I was pissed that the company had wasted my time.”

Hasn’t there been cases about other automakers bragging about their cars? (In commercials, in media interviews, press conferences, etc.)

The VinFast engineers insisted I drive one specific prototype unit they claimed had the “latest and greatest” suspension and software updates. It, too, was pretty shit.

Not going to give VinFast a pass on this, but Subaru had the same “infotainment” fiasco. When the Subaru Outback was redesigned for the 2020 model year, there were complaints about the infotainment system. Some buyers complained about the infotainment system getting stuck, freezing, or being simply slow.

Two questions about this:

  1. Why is VinFast getting all the hate for the infotainment system and not Subaru? (Never interacted with both a VinFast or Subaru infotainment system, but the reviews for both infotainment systems seem to be on the same page)

  2. Because of VinFast’s and Subaru’s mishaps with the infotainment systems, will this be a message that automakers should stop making all the controls incorporated with the infotainment system or less graphical?

No hate to the brands mentioned in my questions (BMW or Subaru), and obviously no “fanboyism” to VinFast, but observations in the article I found interesting.

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The difference in the probable life expectancy of FCA/Stellantis and VinFast is… huge

The key detail we need to highlight here is not “life expectancy” but reputation. If VinFast has a bad rep because they make poor products and people think is subpar, why wouldn’t FCA/Stellantis fit the bill also?

FCA/Stellantis has a bad rep for bad quality for decades. They are still in business.

If VinFast doesn’t survive, wouldn’t FCA/Stellantis not also if they are unable to sell products?

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You only get one chance to make a first impression. And Vinfast’s first impressjon was quite poor.

Not at all. As SUVs became mainstream transportation, buyers demanded more car like ride and handling. The more expensive SUVs can be equipped with electronic shock systems, active stabilizer bar systems and air suspensions. All significant cost options.

  1. The reviewers HAVE interacted with Vinfast and Subaru systems and THEY slapped on the criticism.

  2. No, it means they should do a better job. I personally want some of these features controlled by actual knobs and buttons, but screens are OK for many additional features. The integration will continue and manufacturers like Vinfast and others will NOT get a pass for poor design.

These reviewers drive a lot of cars. They know when they are sub par for their segments. I used to evaluate competitive cars when I worked for GM. A Jeep CJ was absolutely awful compared to a Mercedes S Class but OK when compared to its peers.

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I don’t know the mindset of the buyers. An SUV for the most part, is seen as a “practical” vehicle to get to Point A to B. Are those buyers going to demand the same for a $25K-$30K SUV/CUV next? (Way under VinFast’s price range) Wouldn’t those buyers be better off with an enthusiast car or sports sedan if they want those benefits?

But with that being said, the performance SUVs have been kind of killer.

A Jeep CJ was absolutely awful compared to a Mercedes S Class but OK when compared to its peers.

Isn’t a Jeep CJ way far off from a Mercedes S-Class in price and class? This isn’t really a comparison.

This is like saying a Chevy Trax is horrible compared to a Audi Q8. Both the Chevy and Audi aren’t in the same class. Same with the Benz and the Jeep.

P.S. about this:

These reviewers drive a lot of cars. They know when they are sub par for their segments.

Sometimes magazines and reviewers fail to understand the purpose of a car and even show bias. (Not in the VinFast case) Car and Driver is one example. (I am not tarring all their articles)

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The manufactuer’s DO know the mindset. That is why there are $50K to well over $100K SUVs… Cadillac Escalades or Range Rovers… These are not practical A to B vehicles. And, Yes, buyers of lower priced SUVs want nice rides and quality features, too. They don’t have to be Range Rover features but they must at least match the competition. If they don’t, they will not sell.

Taken out of context… I explained that later in the paragraph and again above.

Those reviewers don’t have jobs for long. Readers expect them to know the purpose and market. And most do. Yes, there can be bias but tbe poor reviews for Vinfast appears universal. A crappy car is a crappy car no matter where it originated.

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My points may contain hot takes.

Correct. But you mentioned yourself the price range. $50K to $100K SUV buyers are a niche market. Most consumers look for less expensive SUVs. My question was why would people care for less expensive SUVs to be ride and handling ready?

I highly doubt an SUV will be on a track and drifting around corners. (Well, except for the Kona N!)

What do you think less-expensive SUV buyers are looking for in a car?

And, Yes, buyers of lower priced SUVs want nice rides and quality features, too.

I will be using this in another point mentioned later, but what about the Honda CR-V?

It checks the box on “nice ride” but misses the mark on “quality features”:

It lacks:

  1. A 360 camera (Not even available on the top-of-the-line CR-V starting at $41K)
  2. Ventilated Seats (Not an option on any trim)
  3. Optional rear USB seat ports (Most automakers competing the SUV market have rear USB seat ports standard)
  4. Panoramic Sunroof
  5. Removed the rear LED turn signals in the last generation and replaced them with halogen rear turn signals. (I presumably think this was a cost cut)

Some CR-V fans felt it was a step backwards. But guess what, SUV buyers still bought them over the competition.

“Nice ride”, sure any car needs to have a nice ride. “Quality features”, well a grey area for me. Depends on the brand and the loyalty.

Readers expect them to know the purpose and market. And most do.

Car and Driver gave the Toyota 4Runner a 4/10 just because of the following:

  • Outdated powertrain
  • substandard cabin quality
  • drives too much like a truck.

Point 1 and 2 was fair. But Point 3 was flawed completely. Toyota marketed the 4Runner as a truck vehicle. (For offroad) It has a cult like following and a niche. People drive them and some still buy them. I was in one (not as a driver) and I didn’t think the car was bad. It was very rugged and has incredible reliability.

The 4Runner has a fanbase and redeemable qualities. If I was the author, I would have given the 4Runner a 5.5 or 6 at best. Not going to set the world on fire but a fair score.

To return back to bias point, the Honda CR-V got a 10/10 on Car and Driver. Why a 10/10? Even after stating the missing quality features that competitors had at the price point. My scoring would be 9 or 8.5 at worst. Yes, it is practical and truly SUV material, but missing features that competitors have doesn’t make it “10/10” material. Something I am missing here.

Yes, there can be bias but tbe poor reviews for Vinfast appears universal.

I actually said that in brackets:

(Not in the VinFast case)

A crappy car is a crappy car no matter where it originated.

Hasn’t there been cases when those cars grow on people and are no longer said as “crappy”?

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No they are not. Land Rover sells 60K vehicles a year and Escalade alone 40K plus its sisters the GMC Denali and Chevy Suburban. Not to mention the SUVs from Audi, Porsche, Lincoln, now Ferrari and Lambourgini. This is a big market which is why every automaker is in it.

Because 30 years ago large car buyers switched to SUVs and expected them to ride like the cars they gave up. 20 years ago when mid size and smaller SUVs started appearing these buyers switched from cars and expected car-like rides from CRVs, Rav 4s and the like. Most were based on FWD car platforms so it wasn’t that hard to do.

Uhhm… Jeep Trackhawk, Jag F-Pace, Mercedes AMG GLE, GLS and GLC… I’ve seen more than a few at trackdays.

Because some people can’t tell the difference in ride between a Rolls Royce and a dump truck. People’s sensitivity is linear from dead-but to can read-heads-or-tails on a coin they ran over. Carmakers can’t afford to upset 50 to 60% of their buyers who don’t want a truck like ride and buy another brand. Cult-like followers will ignore fundamental flaws. Yugo owners. Trabants, and most Jeep products come to mind.

Yes, there is bias as I said. Your opinion on a given car is just that… Your opinion and no one pays you for that opinion (well, not yet).

Yes, cars grow on people and develop a following… Yugos, Trabants, Deloreans, ect. They are still crappy cars in the majority opinion.

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No they are not.

Compared to less expensive SUVs I mean.

Because 30 years ago large car buyers switched to SUVs and expected them to ride like the cars they gave up

I feel that is not on the automakers themselves, it is on the buyers who “wanted them”. Like they should understand that the SUV is not what they are going to expect. Why would they want an SUV to have the dynamics of a enthusiast car? An SUV is marketed as a practical hauler and a comfortable car to be.

Uhhm… Jeep Trackhawk, Jag F-Pace, Mercedes AMG GLE, GLS and GLC… I’ve seen more than a few at trackdays.

That’s cool. But keep in mind, they sell LESS compared to non-performance counterparts. On the roads, I see a lot of CR-Vs, RAV4s, GLCs (non-AMG), Q5s (non S models), etc.

Also, quick question. How many performance SUVs were sold compared to performance cars, enthusiast cars or track cars?

Because some people can’t tell the difference in ride between a Rolls Royce and a dump truck.

What does that have to do with the Toyota 4Runner’s purpose and marketing?

Carmakers can’t afford to upset 50 to 60% of their buyers who don’t want a truck like ride and buy another brand.

The mentality of the buyers you are mentioning is WAY DIFFERENT from the mentality of 4Runner buyers.

Ask a 4Runner buyer why they bought their vehicle. Ask let just say a Hyundai Palisade buyer why they bought their vehicle. They will have DIFFERENT responses.

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A Jeep CJ is an off road vehicle that can be driven to places to go off road.

I see no point in anybody owning one unless they are taking it off road,

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Donut Media on You Tube tested a customer owned Vinfast to see if it’s really as bad as other reviews claim, things like the excessive chimes and the bouncy ride to be as other’s noted but some flaws appeared to have been corrected. Even well established brands have first year quirks and issues, the Toyota/Subaru electric SUv’s had a major problem right out of the gate and we’ll have to see if they improve over time but the Vinfast seems like something rushed to market before it was really ready.

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I saw that one. I think the car was described as “the parent that constantly nags you to drive safely” because of the excessive chimes! :joy:

Even well established brands have first year quirks and issues, the Toyota/Subaru electric SUv’s had a major problem right out of the gate and we’ll have to see if they improve over time but the Vinfast seems like something rushed to market before it was really ready.

I hope so too. We shall see!

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Exactly. And from the article:

From an engineering development perspective, this is not consistent with robust and reliable design. From a consumer perspective, not many people want to be beta testers with vehicles that have numerous flaws or oversights because the manufacturer wanted to “move fast”…

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