Good post, Bladecutter. The traction control will come in handy in the Montreal winter.
Bladecutter, I contend that you haven’t proven that a timing chain leads to lower cost of ownership. It may and it may not, but I haven’t seen any convincing proof either way.
Well, let me make it clearer:
When you have to replace a timing belt every 40k to 60k miles like you have to on Hyundai’s, Toyota’s, Subaru’s, Honda’s, and the PT Cruiser in contention, vs not ever having to change it in the Nissan Cube, that means that you save several hundred dollars for the belt, the labor to change the belt, a new water pump, and every other change, a timing belt tensioner assembly.
That right there says you save quite a bit of money over the vehicle’s 250k mile lifespan. Lets say an average of $500 every 50k miles, for a total of $2500 that you don’t spend on the Nissan Cube, or any other Nissan product, I believe.
I know the Cube and the Versa both use the same 1.8 liter 4 cylinder engine, both of which have timing chains. The Versa also offers a 1.6 liter engine, the Sentra has 2 liter and 2.5 liter engines, the Altima sports a 2.5 or a 3.5 liter engine, and the Maxima also runs around on the 3.5 liter engine.
So is that enough convincing proof?
BC.
Why buy a copycat like the Cube? Buy the xB, real deal!
I got stuck behind one of those abominations in traffic on I695 some time ago.
The assymetrical rear end sent my OCD into hissy fits.
Arrrgh.
I am afraid it isn’t enough to convince me. For one thing, the timing belt interval is 60,000 or 90,000 miles for many cars. In addition, I contend that using a timing belt saves fuel. The belt weighs less and requires less force to move.
If you pay $400 for a timing belt job every 90,000 miles (like I do with my Civic), the cost is about $0.0056 per mile.
Now let’s suppose using a timing belt squeezes out an extra 1.5 miles per gallon (for 31.5 MPG instead of 30 MPG, a modest estimate). Over the course of 90,000 miles, that equates to almost 143 gallons of fuel saved. At $2.75 per gallon, that comes to $392.86. In this particular scenario, it would be a wash. If gas goes up to $4/gallon … well, you can do the math. The timing belt would win hands down.
You may prefer timing chains, but they come at a cost, and that cost is lower efficiency.
One last thing to consider is that most people change the water pump when the timing belt gets changed. In your scenario, you don’t change the water pump until it fails. How much would a new engine cost you if that happened? If you caught the leaking water pump sooner, you might not overheat your engine, but you would be stranded and probably have to pay for a tow truck. Isn’t the increased reliability that comes from replacing the water pump worth a price? I think it is worth at least $0.0056 per mile, which would be at least partially offset by the fuel savings.
How do you quantify the cost of being stranded at the side of the road with a failing water pump?
Edit: I would like to make one more point. Saving fuel has become a national security issue. When you save fuel by having a timing belt, you put more money in the pockets of hard-working mechanics and less money in the pockets of the oil companies and those who hate us.
Before all you timing chain believers pile on, please consider that I don’t advocate one way or the other. In a sense, I am playing devil’s advocate. I am looking for some kind of proof that timing chains really do save money. Can anyone back up that assumption with any hard facts?
There is treatment for for OCD you know-been there,done that,a taste of Purgatory-Kevin
The Scion is not available in Canada yet!
Rx = Rose coloured glasses
As soon as I am able to, I will test drive the Cube in snow…(i.e. Montreal’s first snowfall yesterday, and we accumulatef 40cm.) As the vehicle appears to be so low to the ground…I want to know if I will get stuck!
Thanks! I value each opinion.
Thank you, this is quite assuring! 
Thank you for all your info./and support!
Thank you for your opinion!
Well, to be honest, there isn’t much of a fuel efficiency advantage for either chain or belt drive.
Lets take some average small sedans, who’s primary role is fuel efficiency:
Nissan Sentra, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra.
If these cars aren’t direct competitors, please let me know, and I will change the entrants.
So lets look at fuel economy numbers, hp and torque numbers, and weight values.
Sentra - 26 city/34 highway * 140 hp/147 ft-lbs * 2930 lbs
Corolla - 26 city/35 highway * 132 hp/128 ft-lbs * 2822 lbs
Civic - 25 city/36 highway * 140 hp/128 ft-lbs * 2630 lbs
Elantra - 26 city/34 highway * 138 hp/136 ft-lbs * 2747 lbs
I chose the values for a base model engine, with an automatic transmission for my numbers above.
As you can see, the Sentra is within 1 or 2 mpg of everyone for highway values, and is tied with just about everyone for city values, but has a car that weighs significantly more. It also supplies the most torque, which as you know, is what actually makes the car move down the road.
As for your water pump comment, what exactly is the lifespan of a water pump?
As far as I can tell, it should be a lifetime component.
The impeller itself doesn’t wear out.
All there is is a bearing that the shaft of the impeller goes through, the housing of the water pump, and the pulley. Where is the point of failure of a water pump? It is just about always the bearing assembly that the impeller shaft runs through, that seals the inside of the water pump.
What causes water pump failure?
Typically inferior bearings that are sourced, or bad casting of the pulley that causes oscillations of the impeller shaft as it spins, that then causes loads in the bearing that it was never designed to handle, which then causes wear to the bearing surfaces, and eventually, seal failure or impeller damage.
But never in my life have I come across a water pump that actually wore out its impeller. Its not a part that should fail, under normal circumstances. I’ve seen plenty that have gotten well into the 100k to 200k mile marks without needing to be replaced, nor that have lost pressure.
There are so many other parts that wear out more quickly than the water pump, that are just as important to the car. Ball joints, tie rods, pitman and idler arms are parts that are often neglected on cars until they fail, when then sends a car out of control, and crashing into other objects, that are potentially moving at highway speed.
You don’t get any warning that the parts are about to fail, either.
At least with a water pump, there is a temp gauge that lets you know that something is going wrong, and if you are paying attention, you can pull over safely, and call a tow truck, and prevent having to replace an entire car, or several, if you hit other vehicles after you lose steering, your front end drops, and your out of control tire sends the car careening all over the place.
Besides, even if you did decide to replace the water pump preemptively, that means that you are then performing a $150 service to a car every 150k miles, that if done incorrectly, won’t lead to the instant destruction of the valves and pistons inside an engine.
As for your national security comment, that is a crock, and YOU know it.
No matter what this country or any other country on the planet does, there will always be other people out there who are going to live lives based on ignorance, envy, and hatred. Nothing is ever going to change that.
Ultimately, I would much rather have my hard earned dollars stay in my pocket, than for it to go into either the oil companies pockets, or the hard earned mechanics pockets. If there was an oil and gasoline company that only pulled oil from certain countries (Canada, US, etc), I would go out of my way to purchase it, but NO ONE offers that option.
I can’t believe you would pull a political argument into a thread about the benefit of one design component over another to try and assist your argument. I’ve always held high value of your posts, but that does affect my opinion of you, Whitey.
BC.
Where is the point of failure of a water pump?
I would say it is the small holes through which water leaks in many failing water pumps. I forget what they are called.
As for your national security comment, that is a crock, and YOU know it.
I thought we were going to be able to keep this discussion on a respectful level, but you are making that difficult. Are you accusing me of lying, or intentionally attempting to deceive you? If so, I suggest you re-evaluate that statement. I do believe energy independence is directly related to national security, and your disbelief doesn’t change that.
Frankly, I am mature enough to not care what you think of me, and the idea of energy dependence being related to national security isn’t a partisan or political argument. It is a belief supported by folks from all over the political spectrum and nonpartisan national security experts.
You are welcome to not agree, but I suggest you back the hell off and stop making this personal.
Well - looks-wise it’s a little odd, but I’ve been going to Japan every spring for the last several years (at least 5 or 6) and see lots of them every time. My point is that with first generation cars you’re bound to encounter a few bugs, but it’s been around for a while so that all the bugs should have already been worked out by now. The only bugs you’d get with the American version are whatever there might be from switching the driver’s side from right to left. Reliability should be good.
Thank you!
Whitey, a person’s comments say more about them than they do about anyone else. I agree with you that saving fuel is a national security issue, even if just to pay the Pentagon’s astonishing fuel bill; about $16.8 billion in 2008. How many countries have a GDP that large? Considering also the amount of fuel or oil imported, it is a security issue on that front as well. Even though most of it comes from our good friends in Mexico and Canada. If prices doubled because, say, Venezuela decided not to sell to us, that would affect our national security.
Brother I would buy my gas from a backyard source too-Kevin( P.S. I like belts also,but were I live timing chains are a better solution,interesting about the efficency of a timing belt Whitey)