The transmission pan had been left off and used to feed the shop owner’s dogs. The pan was reinstalled with Purina and errant leaves which had blown through the door. When running the leaves and dog food were being sucked up to the filter and cutting off the flow of transmission fluid.
Pretty sure that’s the best “bad mechanic” story I’ve heard. Thanks for the laugh!
@Bing Yes, when you are in unknown country, the dealer is your best choice. However, once when camping in the backwoods of Maine, our radiator developed a leak. We refilled it with water, kept a jar handy, and carefully drove it to the nearest garage where a very competent mechanic put in some stop leak and told us to get it fixed properly when we got home. Which we did, it required a rebuilt radiator for our Malibu. He saved the rest of our vacation trip; putting in a new radiator in rural Maine would have been very disruptive to our plans.
It is my belief that you should replace anything that touches the timing belt when doing the job on an interference engine without question. I recently did the job on the GF’s Suzuki Reno (same as Forenza). She had bought the car used and had no history on it and it would have been overdue for the first belt change at this time. I did the tensioner, idlers, and water pump along with the belt. The belt was the only thing that was obviously in need of replacement but I know these engines are not at all forgiving to the belt breaking. It seems there are different levels of interference engines and that these are among the least forgiving. Some people can break a belt at idle and not damage anything, even if it is specified as an interference engine. I figured why take the chance and since I was doing the work, had her get a complete kit.
In repairing computers, I often see many of the low-cost consumer grade units come in with failed components caused by a flaky power supply. The unit will turn on and work but often acts flaky and can lead to other failures down the line. I used to give people the option of not replacing the power supply to save them a few bucks but HIGHLY suggest that they do so because of the secondary problems. Some would do it but others would choose not to replace it. Then when the same problem happened a week later, they would come screaming back to me.
I now don’t give them the option if I have any doubt about the power supply. I swear this is the engineered weak like of planned obsolescence in many consumer units plus we have lots of storms, surges, and brownouts in the power which takes their toll. If someone insists on not replacing something like this that can lead to problems down the road, I explain to them that I will not guarantee any of the work I have just done and make them sign a form agreeing to this. Some change their mind and have me do the work while others are just cheap and will do anything to save a buck, even if it comes back to bit them later.
It is my belief that you should replace anything that touches the timing belt when doing the job on an interference engine without question.
That is my belief too, as a mechanic, and from any technical viewpoint that’s the way to do it. But from a management or sales perspective, there’s another thing to consider. Someone has to pay for all that.
2000 VW Beetle, due for timing belt. $50 for a t-belt, 3 hours labor, maybe throw in a serp belt if it needs one and with tax you’re just over $400. But lets say you want to a complete kit. A timing belt kit with water pump is close to $200 and doesn’t come with the hydraulic tensioner. That’s another $110. Gallon of coolant, $22.95, additional labor to remove and replace water pump, tensioner and housing and idler pulleys another hour. So now you’re up to $800. You’ve doubled the cost of the job. For some people out there $400 is a sizeable amount.
The customer standing in front of you is holding the maintenance schedule from her owner’s manual and it says to replace the timing belt at 105,000 (or whatever) miles. It says nothing about replacing idler pulleys or water pump. You can recommend and explain all you want, but ultimately it’s her car, her money, and her responsibility to make the right decision.
In this case she chose timing belt only. And now 28,000 miles later the car is back with a seized tensioner, stripped t-belt and bent valves.
Yep, that doesn’t surprise me. In the case of the OP, he thought he paid for the complete job and that is in question. I suspect the mechanic took a gamble with a lesser job to pad the bill and now the customer is stuck with bent valves.
As for the people who will not do the complete job, do mechanics have them sign a form acknowledging that this isn’t the best way to proceed? I feel that is the only way to protect yourself and I have anyone not opting to do the job correctly do this with computers.
I have EVERYONE sign a form at dropoff agreeing to certain terms. For one, the form has a line stating “By providing a device for service, I am acknowledging that there is an issue or problem that requires repair or upgrading.” You would think this would be understood but all the “There was nothing wrong with it when I brought it to you” comments got a little old. Why did you bring it to me then?
@asemaster - just to fill you in, when I brought the car in, I had so little knowledge of my car’s inner workings. What I did know was that timing belt replacement and it’s related parts was vital and I understood that I was being charged for a “kit”, though I didn’t know exactly what that meant and I, stupidly, trusted my mechanic, which I made very clear to him. My M.O. was “you’re the expert, you tell me what the car needs”.
The only “optional” repair at that time, according to him, was replacing the oil pan, which we went ahead and did anyway because it was nominal in the bill, which also included rear rotor replacements, brake pads, etc…
The second opinion mechanic said that the original guy did replace the tensioner, but that he overtorqued the bolt (or didn’t tighten it enough, which is a possibility that @ok4450 mentioned), which is why it broke and why I am now in this situation.
He did not replace the pullies, one of which is still nice and smooth and one of which is rattling…so he should have advised me to replace that one. Now that I know what all of this stuff is, I can see that the pullies where not specifically listed in the bill. But I wonder what kind of $500 kit doesn’t include pullies! (I paid an additional $150 for the tensioner).
Unfortunately, I didn’t understand all of these parts and so didn’t know to ask. Again, I trusted his authority based on the fact that he had over a hundred 5 star reviews. Now he takes no responsibility and maintains that everything was installed perfectly. Somehow I think perfect installation should last more than 600 miles.
@jujubes I was just making a general comment in response to cwatkin, not talking specifically about your car trouble. It sounds like you did make the right choice but unfortunately your mechanic isn’t either competent or ethical. I’m sorry for your troubles and hope you get your car back on the road soon.
There are competent and honest independent shops out there, you just have to look a little bit to find us.
@cwatkin there’s no specific form for something like this, but the invoice will state that the customer declined a recommended repair. Just like a car comes in with grinding front brakes. We see steel cord coming out of the rear tires. If the customer can’t or won’t replace the rear tires it’s noted on the invoice.
Other than being in full agreement that a proper repair means replacing all idlers, tensioners, and water pump along with the timing belt, reinforcement needs to be given to the thought that the customer who is not mechanically inclined has to rely on the expertise of the professional although I don’t think the word “professional” applies to the shop that botched the job on the OP’s car.
The professional should make recommendations about what is needed to make sure the job is done right, stays done right, and the customer should not have to fret one minute over the job being done correctly.
The OP was charged for a timing kit. I have never seen a kit yet that did not include all idler and tensioner pulleys so the fact that idlers and tensioners are not listed separately doesn’t mean anything.
Some kits may not include a tensioner adjuster which is sold separately. The OP apparently paid extra for the tensioner adjuster.
The OP says one of the pulleys is loose and rattling so one has to wonder if the belt only was replaced.
A disclaimer form in which a customer acknowledges the shop is not responsible for any problems due to the customer declining a recommended extra (say a water pump during a timing belt job) may not mean anything.
I say this due to having seen customers sign their John Henry absolving the shop of any responsibility and when things go sour amnesia sets in and they don’t remember signing off on it.
This can go hand in hand with “lost my copy of the repair order…” or “You guys forged my name…” type of comments. 
OP, I noticed you’ve mentioned the “5 star reviews” rating of that shop several times. Please be cautious about the interpretation of internet based ratings. You don’t know who it is that is providing those ratings. It could be customers, but it could also be employees of the shop, who knows? There’s no way to know.
Suggest in the future, when selecting a shop, to ask friends, relatives, co-workers, fellow church goers, anybody you have a trusted personal relationship with, who they use to service their car. From among that list, choose a shop that specializes in your make of car, and be sure to tell the shop owner who it was that recommended them to you. That gives you some leverage in the event of a future dispute.
Yes, customers seem to conveniently “forget” that they signed any form when something goes wrong down the line. I had one guy who smoked like a chimney and I told him I don’t guarantee computers against anything if you smoke around them and he seemed OK with that. So he brought it to me a few months later and it reeked of smoke. I figured he just didn’t care and smoked around it anyway. When I called him with the estimate, he went crazy. Oh well I make sure to remind them that I do have the forms on hand.
I used to save them for a year, now I think 5 years might be in order. That is the statute of limitations for small claims in MO but they could always lie so maybe I should just hang onto them. I had one come back 6 years later.
@ok4450 going to court today! I don’t know if discussion threads like this are admissible, but was wondering where you are based and how long you’ve been a mechanic just so I can tell the judge/mediator!
Whether my opinion makes any difference or not I suppose anything is worth a try. I’m in northern OK and have been a mechanic for close to 40 years; mostly in the import car world. I have experience in motorcycle repair and have also held an Aircraft Powerplant Rating; meaning an FAA approved aircraft mechanic.
I’ve also worked for 3 Subaru dealers over the years and have held Subaru Master Tech status. I’ve also held certifications in several other makes of cars including VW, SAAB, Honda, Nissan, and have held ASE status along with being a former OK vehicle safety inspector.
There are others on this forum who are full time mechanics, hold various certs, etc so maybe they can weigh in also.
For what it’s worth, quite a few years back a shop botched the manual transmission in a lady’s Subaru with the story being posted here. I provided a tech explanation of what they did wrong and emailed her a few pics showing the tiny little widget that caused the problem. I never heard from her again and forgot all about it.
A few years later and out of the blue she mailed me and stated that she had taken the shop to court and won with the judge ordering the shop to refund every dime plus pay court filing fees and some other incidental expenses.
My words may mean nothing in that court and even certifications can be taken with a grain of salt but good luck anyway. 
Thank you so much!! I’ve meet some amazingly wonderful and helpful mechanics/people through this experience- definitely restoring my faith in humanity. Will let you know how it goes!
Just a few comments that might help you in court.
Control your emotions. Do NOT show anger, curse, name call the other party, roll your eyes, etc.
Keep your complaint to the judge as short, simple, and concise as possible. Judges do NOT want to listen to 10 minutes straight of an automotive complaint even if it actually takes that long to lay the tale out. Think of a Cliff’s Notes version…
If the judge asks any followup questions of you keep any responses short and as clear as possible; and of course always refer to him or her as Your Honor every time you speak to them. A little respect (a.k.a. sucking up…) can go a long way.
Re: timing belt kits, @ok4450 it wouldn’t surprise me at all if this joker got a bare timing belt from somewhere like Rockauto and then charged OP for the whole kit to further pad his profits. Hell, based on some of the stuff OP has told us it wouldn’t surprise me if he got a belt out of a junkyard motor.
This is the kind of boil on the butt of humanity that makes people insult real mechanics by giving them a hard time every time they recommend anything at all.
You’re correct shadowfax and I’ve worked with a few of the type. Appallingly enough, one of them was the lead technician at a Subaru dealer where I worked during the 80s.
I knew the guy personally before ever working with him but had no idea that the definition of slipshod applied to him. He wrote the book on wild guessing and cobbling things together.
I know a few mechanics who wouldn’t think twice about installing used parts
One of the guys crawls in the dumpster, looking for “good parts”
What is also disturbing . . . when he replaces a bad part with a new part, he doesn’t throw the old part away, like a normal guy would do. He saves it, to be reused again
Sometimes he tries to give these old parts to the other mechanics, to use for test purposes. One time a guy was naive and believed the old part was a “known good part” and used it as such for his diagnosis
By the time he figured out the part was garbage, he asked the garbage picker to come over to his bay. He threw the bad part . . . a fuel pump, I believe . . . on the ground, so hard that it shattered. Then he further smashed it with a deadblow hammer. Then he yelled at the guy “Don’t EVER help me again.”
I’m quite certain this garbage picker saves parts . . . good and bad . . . and installs them on sidejob cars on the weekend. Yup, he actually gets paid money to install garbage
A guy I used to work with hauled off several pickup loads of old used parts being scrapped by a dealer and which had been collecting dust for years. He was of Middle Eastern descent and on the weekends he would make a lot of money screwing his fellow Middle Easterners over. They were the only ones he would cheat and would brag about the figurative raping he gave one of them over the weekend.
He would slop an engine together out of used parts (including rings and bearings) and when someone came back a week or so later with a knocking and oil puking engine he would blame it on something else and charge them the same amount again to rehash it all. They would all smile and pay up without question because he was one of their “brothers” who would never cheat them.
He also held a legitimate degree in electrical engineering and was slogging it out on dealer flat rate…
In one case, a VW was idling rough due to a split vacuum line. By the end of the weekend that line had been changed along with the valve cover gasket to make it look good, and the top end hosed off with carb cleaner before he hit the owner an even grand for a valve job…
All of this was one off-premises on the weekends at home. He’s a great guy to pal around with but I’d never let him touch a car of mine.
I know people who keep old junk parts or entire junk appliances, etc. with no intention of doing anything with them. I have been known to haul off old junk for people while on jobs but it goes into a pile to be hauled in as scrap. Sometimes this brings a considerable amount of money so I usually take it in on a slow day. My grandpa on the other hand had broken pipes, junk appliances, and all kinds of other junk from the past 50 years stashed in his basement when we moved him out. I wish we had the time to take it in for scrap but it was easier to throw it in a dumpster. I would assume the garbage people picked through it as there was a lot of metal. The stuff was obviously junk but why did he save it? We will never know.
I get people on jobs who have some old, broken, and or outdated piece of equipment. They seem to still think it is worth money and don’t partake in my free recycling offer. I mean people have closets full of old junk they never use.
I do sometimes keep parts that I replace as part of a schedule or because of unknown maintenance history. These include water pumps, belts, radiator hoses, and yes, TIMING BELTS and related components (non-interference engines only) as part of my limp home kit. The only part I have ever used out of this was the timing belt of all things. I had a new to me car break a belt while I was driving. I got a ride home and a neighbor brought me back to the car where I installed a used belt. I drove it home and promptly ordered a new belt kit and didn’t drive the car until it was installed. Those old parts can serve some purpose but I would never count on them and if I was paying for the labor, I would insist on new.