The Perfect Magic Bus

The Show
61

Dear Tom and Ray,

While working on my own 1959 VW Bus, I was at a gasp when I heard you tell a caller that it would be ok to cut and stretch a 21 window VW micro bus.
Apparently you are not aware of the value of these vehicles. A 21 or 23 window micro bus these days, when restored, can sell for over $50,000.
If this caller were to take a perfectly good bus and cut it up, he would soon be murdered by the VW community.
Believe me, we know where every bus is and who owns them. The caller would be better apt to search for a bus that has already been limoed out in the 70?s or 80?s These were not very good decades for buses but we have learned our lessons and try to take better care of them now. He can also install up to a 2.3L air-cooled motor in this thing which would give him plenty of power to climb hills. No need to add a V-8.
This is a bus, not a Pinto.

In the future, please refer any callers who have questions about early buses to the larges VW bus website on the planet, www.thesamba.com.
There, one can learn all they need to know about buses, bugs and how to take care of them.

62

Perfect, provided it is Diesel and can run on Bio-Fuel!

63

vehicle recommendation for California Eco-Tours

There was a caller on the radio show
broadcast of Saturday, June 16th, 2007 that
wanted a recommendation on a vehicle that
could carry 12 passengers up into the CA
mountains. He wanted to modify an
underpowered VW microbus…but I recommend a
Series I or Series II Land Rover Safari wagon
from the 1960’s or early 1970’s…The safari
wagon can carry 12 passengers!

I think that they are available with gas and
diesel engines (which are more fuel efficient
than gas)…and can probably be converted to
run on propane…However, it will probably
need to be retrofitted with A/C.

Take Care,

Jason

64

OK guys. On today’s show a guy was looking for a cool, historical convertible
bus to haul about a dozen folks around the wine country and up and down hills.
You guys talked (no doubt because of a drug induced flashback of the 60’s)
about cutting up and welding together a bunch of VW microbuses. Jeeeeez!

Something about his idea struck a memory cell I haven’t managed to kill yet.
And I found the following information.
http://www.glacierparkinc.com/TransportationHistory.htm

The entire fleet of thirty-three 1936 to 1939 touring coaches, was originally
built by the White Motor Company (although painted a ripe mountain ash berry
red color, some old timers still refer to the touring coaches as “White buses”).
The 25-foot-long touring coaches seat 17 passengers with a unique canvas top,
which rolls back. The buses serve as Glacier National Park’s transportation and
touring system, allowing you to travel from one side of the park to the other
along the spectacular Going-to-the-Sun Road and up north to Canada’s
Waterton Lakes National Park. They also link all of the historic lodges and inns.

There were apparently 500 of these things built over the years and this is
exactly what he needs. You guys will look like veritable automotive geniuses for
coming up with such a perfect and perfectly obscure solution.

65

start with something sturdy
if you use as a base a 1940s or 50s Hearst or Ambulance from Packard or Studebaker you would have a distinctive body that was engineered for heavier loads and a community of enthusiasts to get parts from.

66

Wrong answer. As a tour bus company owner he’ll have regulations, liability, and requirements that the private citizen would not. He need to work with official agencies such as the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, a lawyer, and tourist agencies. Those mandates are what should drive his choices.

67

I like the Checker Airport limo several have suggested. That big engine compartment could easily accommodate a big turbo-diesel which would have the torque to get you up and down the mountains, and could be run on biodiesel or converted to vegetable oil for environmental bonafides. Cut a few large roll up sunroofs in the top and you’re good to go…

68

use the VW stretch or whatever and power it with a subaru motor. This is a common swap now and adds lots of power. Some companies make adaptors , one of theses I think is Kennedy Engineering.

69

I wrote this last weekend while listening to the show, and the discussion here has highlighted a few points that are added after the carat-marked text (sent to Doug Berman):

The “magic bus” VW idea STINKS. It will always break down under load, block the narrow roads in the area, and not be either fuel-efficient or eco-friendly, even with alternative fuel conversions. Besides, it may not pass muster with business and environmental regulatory agencies.

But building a 'green" stretch convertible is not so very hard.

First, a Mercedes 500 or 600 limosine with Diesel is necessary. Some are indeed made with convertible tops. Some are big enough for 12, but most won’t hold more than 6, so a stretch treatment would still be necessary. The best companies for this are in (gasp!) Southern California, but a few coach conversion companies also operate in the Bay Area.

Next, convert the vehicle for bio-diesel - using either recycled cooking oils or other materials, with a propane tank backup arrangement. This is a readily-available
commercial conversion. These conversions meet California Air Resources Board (CARB) and ABAG standards.

These vehicles are made for that heavy duty, are nicely appointed, and will run until he retires. They also have an old-fashioned kind of look but are modern engineering.

I may have been wrong about being able to run a diesel using a propane conversion. There are some alternative fuels besides recycled cooking oil, however, that will work in a diesel engine and there are already commercial conversion kits. CARB has all the data on it so it’s easily obtained.

In addition, if the guy gets in touch with the Cal-Start Consortium at Burbank Airport, he can obtain some nifty electric-powered add-ons that will use passive energy recycling from all his braking operations. This provides a form of supplemental “hybrid” propulsion he can use in many ways on this vehicle, including powering various accessories.

Safety, reliability and above all compliance with environmental regulations matter not only just to the business operator and regulatory aencies - but also, the folk who like to visit Santa Cruz might seem hippie-dippy, but they are usually also educated, intelligent, comfortably financed, and demanding customers. Getting too cute is a fast way to fail if the vehicle isn’t really right.

70

I would suggest a wood paneled Wagoneer. I know these aren’t as old but they have a classic look. Im also guessing that there is a way to get one of these with Diesel even though I haven’t seen them. Then he could run on biodiesel and be environmentally friendly. It seemed he wanted something 4x4 and this would do it for him.

http://www.superdutysuv.com/includes/images/Jeep_Wagoneer/JEEP_WAGONEER.jpg

71

There is a Shop in Fort Worth, TX: Kustom Classics, that just completed a very nice VW microbus conversion for a client in NYC. He put a Corvette FI V8 in the vehicle, with a new GM Auto Tranny and Rear Wheel drive. It looked like he certainly had the skills to build you a stretch version of the same fine vehicle if you wanted one. His contact info:
Mr Bobby Mikus 817-492-4441 or bmikus@Kustomclassics.com

have fun!

72

see attachment

73

Check out the Cortez. I have a 1973 Cortez. It
is a 21.5 foot long all steel unibody motor
home with a 455 Ols front drive (same drive
train as the GMC mororhomes). It could
easyly hold 12 people without being
streched.

The first generation Cortez (1963-1969) was
made by the Clark Industrial Truck Company
(as in Clark forklift) and had an
industrial slant six and a manual
transmition. The second generation (1971-
1978) was made by a stand alone company. Total production was ~ 3200. I have seen
several for sale in the last year. I payed
$1800 for mine and have ~ $10,000 in it now.

Check out the Yahoo group:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/cortezmo
torhomes/

Carl
Austin Texas

74

Jay,

I’ve lost track of how many VW’s I’ve owned, inclusive of a Type 2 (bus) and a Type 3 (Squareback). As another respondant noted, the older buses are becoming pretty “salty” to be a core vehicle(s) to chop and stretch. But more significantly, the suspensions AND brakes are really not designed for the weight loads you can anticipate with 11 passengers. Speaking as someone who is biased towards air cooled VW’s and has owned a few rather unique ones (including a few that were stupidly fast), I’d still discourage you from this idea.

Using a (used) standard small school bus chassis would probably be a much better way to manage both your initial and operational costs, and business liability.
There are many avenues with which you could “customize” the front to make your bus appear old (i.e.: graft on an inexpensive fiberglass Model A front). If being eco-friendly is critical, within a fairly small total trip size of 60 to 100 miles, a propane conversion may be a clever and relatively low cost choice.

If you want further input feel free to call at 717-241-9700. Between my son and myself, we share four MET degrees and a fair amount of both design and automotive experience. Like Tom & Ray, we are terminally motorheads, AND our input is free.

Good luck in your effort.

Dan (Carlisle, PA)

75

Jay,

I will try to keep this short. If you want, I can go into more detail in either email or by phone. There are 3 major types of single propulsion Alternate Fuel Vehicles:

  1. BioDiesel
  2. LNG or Natural Gas
  3. Electric

Each have their own advantages. Given your location in Santa Cruz, the long distance you will be going (100 ro 200 miles per day estimated), I believe your best option is biodiesel. Here’s why:

  1. Biodiesel fuel is available directly from a gas station in Santa Cruz.
  2. There are other sources as well (worthy of more discussion).
  3. Conversion of a standard vehicle to Biodiesel is straightforward.
  4. Diesels have good torque at low RPMs, good for going up hills.
  5. You may end up with the smell of french frys from your exhaust to highlight the biodiesel aspect.

I could discuss the benefits of the other options, but would prefer to get an idea of how much detail you want before proceeding.

Thanks

Bruce Naegel (bnaegel@gmail.com)

76

How about a stretch version of one of the old Jeep Wagoneer convertibles.

77

How about stretching an old Woodie? That would be pretty awesome…

78

Go get an old school bus and paint it the same as the Partrigde Family bus. Then call the tour a Part Ridge tour conducted in a special veHILLal.
The entertainment is free and worth every penny

Ed

79

How about a vintage Fire Truck? eBay and craig’s list are littered with them, they usually have low mileage and look cool. Rip out the water tanks, ladders and miscellaneous fire equipment put in some seats and viola you’ve got your tour wagon. You could also run it on biodiesel.

check this one out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1966-Chevy-Firetruck_W0QQitemZ200120673744QQihZ010QQcategoryZ63735QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

~eriC

80

Hi everyone,

WOW! I never expected so much input. Thank you all so much for your time, effort and advice.

After reading all the responses, I think that I might be even more inspired… or maybe confused…about the magic bus.

I’m not dead set on the VW, but what I want is something unique and-even better-something that might have a connection to Santa Cruz or at least the golden age of california.

I like the national park buses, but somehow that seems done. Its not unique enough, maybe.

I also like the Stanley Steamer mountain wagon. It is, however, too open for me in the fog forest here.

I appreciate the folks who chimed in about liability issues. I can also appreciate the gasps from the VW purists at my idea to chop up a vintage automobile.

Where does that leave me…? Well, knowing that I’m going to have to customize something… Maybe a modified short school bus with a vintage front end and custom convertible top?

Ah, maybe I’ll stick to my guns and stretch the bus after all.

Whatever happens, keep an eye out for some form of the “Magic Bus”. If you are ever in Santa Cruz, do yourself a favor and sample our world class wine.

Thanks again and keep the ideas coming.

J. from Santa Cruz