MeanJoe, “You’ll have to pardon me, though, for not hopping on the Musk bandwagon. Tesla is a miserable, money-sucking failure, but for the copius government incentives keeping them afloat. Tesla sells cars at a loss, so that they can sell Carbon Offset Credits at a gain! (AND no road tax AND tax incentives AND…you get the idea.)”
Back in the day, they couldn’t give away electric powered refrigerators. Nobody wanted one. The average couple were happy with their ice box. It served its purpose. Why spend all that money to buy and then to operate a big ugly box? It seemed absurd.
“People used pickle, smoke, dry and salt food so that they could store it. During 19th century people used to put things in large ice filled boxes. In 1913 the first refrigerator was made. It was called Domelre( Domestic Electric Refrigerator) and was used for home purpose. Refrigerators were not popular until after World War II when its design was improved.” Krisna Sangel
I don’t intend on winding up in a prison for males. Females, a non-discriminatory prison, for females! where I would finally break through all the old sexist policies of a feudal and corrupt institutional debacle. I’ll insist on it. Long, long, long hot showers. Oh baby
@meanjoe75fan Europe is a very crowded continent with ancient cities and narrow streets. UNTXED cars are the greatest value for money of all times. So is UNTAXED gasoline. Without steep sales taxes based on size and horsepower, and expensive gas European cities would be unlivable due to traffic jams and air pollution. So the tax system keeps these cities livable.
I spent 3 1/2 weeks in Southern France last year. We had a diesel Renault family size car and paid $2.20 per liter ($$8.36/gallon) for fuel.
On the other hand, Good wine is only $1.5 per bottle and food is relatively inexpensive as well. France has one of the best health care systems in the world; if you break a leg their skiing without travel insurance, you will be fixed up and pay a modest sum.
If a Frenchman goes skiing in the US and breaks a leg he may need to mortgage his house.
Most European countries have good old age security, and really look after their Veterans. Higher education is either free or modestly priced as well.
All this means higher income taxes which Europeans are happy to pay to have peace of mind.
Comparing overall health care costs, the US has the most expensive system with around $13,000 per capita. Most developed countries such as Canada, Britain, France, Germany, Australia all cost about $8500 per capita. Japan has the world’s least expensive at about 1/3 of the US cost by combining Oriental and Western medicine. Yet they live longer than Americans.
“Higher education is either free or modestly priced as well.”
Free?
I grew up in this country and was taught that there’s no such thing as a free lunch. It wasn’t until I was adult and had kids of my own that I really understood what free lunch was. My wife and I paid extra for our children’s lunch so that other people’s children could have their’s for “free.”
My daughter’s school actually sent a letter home (just a few years ago) saying that her lunch price would be increasing each year to pay for Michelle Obama’s Lunch Regulations and that the kids who ate for “free” would still eat for free.
Free?
Taxing one group and giving the money to another group or taxing people and then deciding what they need and providing that doesn’t make anything free.
I grew up in this country and was taught that there's no such thing as a free lunch. It wasn't until I was adult and had kids of my own that I really understood what free lunch was. My wife and I paid extra for our children's lunch so that other people's children could have their's for "free."
My daughter’s school actually sent a letter home (just a few years ago) saying that her lunch price would be increasing each year to pay for Michelle Obama’s Lunch Regulations and that the kids who ate for “free” would still eat for free.
Free?
Taxing one group and giving the money to another group or taxing people and then deciding what they need and providing that doesn’t make anything free.
And in order for your town to be following those guidelines means your town is ACCEPTING FEDERAL MONEY for lunch. Several towns in NH didn’t like that rule either…so they opted-out of the federal money.
I wish our school system got out of the lunch program. My daughter got out and provided her own food.
What a difference when schools pull out of federal regulations. My son got his bachelor’s and master’s from a private university. They didn’t have to put up with a lot of garbage and red tape. He got all good classes and a wonderful education.
My wife and I worked and paid for college while we went to college. My son did, also, and my daughter is doing that now. Both kids save for college, had at least 2 summer jobs and earned some money during the school year.
Now there’s young adults complaining they borrowed too much for an education and don’t feel they should have to pay it back. The government should never had let them borrow so much in the first place. No other organization would have.
@csa Spoken like a true Libertarian. Higher education is often beyond the financial ability of a lot of worthy students. I was once accepted at a state university which had very low fees. The rest was of course paid by taxes levied ion the citizens of that state. It so happens I got al lot of scholarships to pay my way through as did my son. However, I don’t mind paying taxes for police protection, education, fire departments, garbage pickup, road construction, etc.
When I say “free” I mean free to the user.
Watching Little House on the Prairie and other 19th century programs there is always an episode where someone will die because of a lack of medication or health care. I assume that would be your preferred economic model. Today Americans live longer because far more have access to health care, much of it publicly funded.
I agree that there are areas where government does not do a very good job and some countries have belatedly discovered that. The British learned their said lesson from nationalizing the coal industry, car industry, shipyards, and other industries. That’s precisely what not to do.
@Docnick Higher education is often beyond the financial ability of a lot of worthy students. That described me, following high school. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. It took me a few extra years and a lot of extra work, but I don’t agree with your statement.
I wouldn’t mind providing for people who have no way earning. The problem is, we’ve gone too far.
Santa Claus on steroids… Take a look at our growing national debt and tell me that we can keep providing “free” everything to nearly everybody. When it hits the fan (and it will), those who rely on and receive the most “free” stuff are going to be really hurting.
What a difference when schools pull out of federal regulations. My son got his bachelor's and master's from a private university. They didn't have to put up with a lot of garbage and red tape. He got all good classes and a wonderful education.
Most of the top colleges are private. I have a BS and MS from private colleges…My daughter has her BS and MS from two of the top schools anywhere…both private. But college isn’t the same as grade school. All my kids went to private high-schools.
Now there's young adults complaining they borrowed too much for an education and don't feel they should have to pay it back. The government should never had let them borrow so much in the first place. No other organization would have.
Student loans should NOT be a money making venture for our country. Student loan rates should not be higher then the loan rates to big banks (which got us in this financial mess in the first place). There are MANY private student loan companies out there…which are more then willing to lend to almost anyone…most have much lower standards then the fed back loans.
You must really hate colleges like Harvard…where if you get accepted and your income is less then $75,000…it’s FREE TUITION AND ROOM AND BOARD. What a socialist school.
I “get” that the crazy population density of Europe makes public transportation much more viable…and that the high level of taxation gets you a social safety net (it ceratainly ought to get you something!)
It’s just that…you NEVER get something for nothing…EVERY form of aid has “strings” attached. By taking the “carrot” of government assistance, the citizens allow governmet to assume a quasi-parental force in their lives: “Big Mother,” if not “Big Brother.” You can’t have a car–public transportation is better for you, you know! As for weaponry, “you’ll shoot your eye out!” The “string” attached to the “carrot” is in effect.
Now, that might be okay for the young, and the very old, and the infirm–but for young, able, vital adults, sovereignty trumps safety. It’s altogether wrong to cede self reliance to a person, or a thing (all politics aside) in exchange for a little safety. “Better to live a day as a lion, than a lifetime as a mouse,” and all that!
When anyone tries to justify the Safety Net Theory on basis of economic outcomes, they’re doing it wrong: there are moral imperitives shattered along the way that make the outcome moot.
@csa In addition to scholarships I worked 60 hours a week on a paving crew for several summers. This kind of work is beyond most 100 lb females who are good students. My son got scholarships and also held down 2 jobs, working for a wholesaler in the warehouse lugging heavy boxes during the day and being a bar tender on weekends. He has 2 Master’s Degrees, one in business and one in Environmental Design and Management.
So… what worked for you and I does not always work for everybody. I come from an immigrant family and really understand the meaning of work. My youngest brother has 5 Master’s Degrees and 2 PhDs, all without parental support but with lots of support from various levels of government and academic institutions who made these study grants possible. His last thesis was about the effectiveness of the British Health Care system.
I do agree that providing free education for those who just want to wile away 4 years without working and do nothing in the summer is waste of public money…
My engineering school (with the exact same program as MIT) demanded 18 weeks minimum every summer performing work of an engineering nature and under the supervision of a qualified licensed engineer. If I had been a spoiled millionaire’s kid, too lazy to work, I would not have graduated.
“@csa In addition to scholarships I worked 60 hours a week on a paving crew for several summers. This kind of work is beyond most 100 lb females who are good students.”
I won’t say that’s entirely accurate, at the risk of gender bias, but my 20 year-old daughter, now a junior in college, made a ton of money this past summer.
She drove a drink cart at a local golf course, assisted a pro in giving golf lessons, waitressed at a restaurant and photographed and listed cars on a car dealer’s website and cut lawns. All was accomplished with little more than 100 pounds of body mass. You wouldn’t believe the massive restaurant and drink cart tips that were collected.
You make it sound as if only strong males can fend for themselves… not true in my family, although my daughter works out and runs 5Ks.
Ah yes, the old ice house. As a kid I remember going to the ice house in the summer to get ice. Essentially a big Quonset hut with layers of big ice blocks packed in straw. The ice had been cut from the lakes in the winter. I don’t know what they did down south. Still, everyone I knew had an electric refrigerator although some of the older folks still called them ice boxes.
There’s pro’s and con’s to each country’s economic system. I spent some time in Norway mid-90’s and most of the folks who lived there told me they thought the benefits outweighed the higher tax rates. In other words if you pay an extra $100 in taxes and in return get a savings of $200 in health care costs, that seems a deal most people would take.
All I know is…if I EVER had to pay $8 for $2 worth of gas, I’d be looking into feed-grade molasses and plans for a still. I’d consider it my patriotic duty.
Yeah they do seem docile. My wife’s cousin lives in Norway. He inherited some money from a relative in the US maybe ten years ago. It is still in the US so he is not exposed to the Norway tax.
Then again oil pays for a lot of the social programs there but now with oil tanking, who knows?
She drove a drink cart at a local golf course, assisted a pro in giving golf lessons, waitressed at a restaurant and photographed and listed cars on a car dealer's website and cut lawns. All was accomplished with little more than 100 pounds of body mass. You wouldn't believe the massive restaurant and drink cart tips that were collected.
And those types of jobs are in areas in the country with a good economy or rural areas that have golf courses. There are many places in the country where the economy is NOT good…Upstate NY still has very high unemployment…
You ALWAYS say things as if it’s true for EVERYONE in this country…and in reality it’s NOT. The American dream is NOT as easily available to ALL American citizens as it seems to be for you.
@CSA Yes, then Norge became a division of Borg Warner, which later sold their appliance division to Maytag. We still have Norge refrigerator, as a beer fridge, with a Maytag label on it. Still going strong after 22 years.
“You ALWAYS say things as if it’s true for EVERYONE in this country…and in reality it’s NOT. The American dream is NOT as easily available to ALL American citizens as it seems to be for you.”
ALWAYS ? If I remember correctly, I only need one example where that statement is not accurate and it negates the whole statement, but I don’t feel I need to do that.
I come from a family of resourceful people, through generations. It hasn’t always been easy, but we give it what it takes to get the job done and fortunately we live in The United States of America. My great grandfather hauled bricks at the Haverstraw brickyard in NY, for example.
I’m always amazed when foreigners come here with limited language skills and not knowing what our citizens know and see all the opportunities available here. Some of them take 2 or 3 less than desirable jobs until they save some money and then do much better, often buying or starting businesses. I’m sure this country is still viewed by many as a land of opportunity, as I view it.