TESLA Tax Two-Step


#1

Apparently, Tesla shipped all of 2016 projected sales to Denmark for registration this month to beat Denmark’s reduced tax subsidy next year. This also inflates their deliveries for 2015 in general:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3679556-tesla-something-is-rotten-in-the-state-of-denmark?app=1&auth_param=2v55b:1b49g5j:df30058e85a9f05f2ce4ccca8270f7fd&uprof=45


#2

Do any other manus do this?


#3

Can’t wait to see how Jim Motavalli “spins” this one!


#4

Elon Musk and Tesla involved in numbers juggling?

I’m stunned I tell you; stunned.


#5

When you sell so few cars, you’ve got to juggle the books to best fit the needs.

Write a law and someone will find a loop-hole.


#6

Tesla didn’t “juggle” anything. They read the changing market and took advantage of an opportunity before the “window” closed. That’s good business. Too bad for manufacturers that failed to do so.

And those that make their living writing about winners that are doing things they themselves cannot do sit behind their computers “spinning” that to try to make the winners look like they’re cheating. I( have enormous respect for what Elon Musk has accomplished. I have very little respect for editorializing critics.


#7

This practice is pretty common in high tech. If the company expects a lot of upcoming sales but hasn’t actually received the purchase orders yet, they’ll sometimes build the systems anyway and ship them to a warehouse. Pretty common at the end of the year.


#8

@TSM:


I have made no secret about my issue with (my perception of) a lack of objectivity in Mr. Motavalli’s writing, as it relates to anything perceived as “green.” I happen to think there ought to be a clear demarcation between journalism and propoganda, but hey–that’s just me! Obviously, the Powers That Be handle his muddying of the line just fine.
I figure this is a good “litmus test”: if Jim comes out swinging, asking the hard questions–I’ll be the first to offer a public Mea Culpa.


You’ll have to pardon me, though, for not hopping on the Musk bandwagon. Tesla is a miserable, money-sucking failure, but for the copius government incentives keeping them afloat. Tesla sells cars at a loss, so that they can sell Carbon Offset Credits at a gain! (AND no road tax AND tax incentives AND…you get the idea.)


Now, I’m Machiavellian enough that I don’t personally begrudge Musk exploiting the system–but don’t tell me he’s a “winner” for crushing a rigged game!


Oh, and not only is “stuffing the supply chain” nothing new…it’s an accounting irregularity frequently used to defraud shareholders! By disguising the nature of “inventory” as “sales,” you make your quaterly reports kick dupa, bumping up the share price, letting you cash in (at the expense of “regular Joe” shareholders). I’m NOT Machiavellian enough to condone that!


Heck with what Jim says–I’m more concerned with what Bloomberg’s does!


(But I’ll take the bit about pom-poms out; temper the tone…but not the intent.)


#9

When Musk is running a private company and turning a profit on produced goods without relying on connections in government and countless millions of taxpayer dollars to keep the BS barge afloat I’ll believe in what he does.

Look at his solar panel operation in Oregon. Millions of tax dollars and using prison inmates to build them while paying inmates 90 cents an hour; all touted as an “economic boost” and “creating well paying jobs”.
I guess 90 cents an hour is decent pay for someone who has to spend off hours locked up.


#10

I think Testa’s move makes some sense, as of next year, it will be close to impossible to sell any Tesla in Denmark. EV cars is exempt here from reg.taxes until 1/1 - 2016. After that date, they will skyrocket for what is considered luxurycars as a Tesla is here.
As we normaly say (about gas and dieselcars): todays offer at the dealership, buy 3, get 1.
Today a Tesla S 70D cost 85000 Usd, next year: 106250, rising to 164000 in 2020 on the condition that the cars price from factory will be the same every year.
A S P85D: today 125800, next year 218900, going up to 260000 in 2020.
Smaller ev’s (think VW E-up and the like will only see a rise in reg.taxes which will increase the prices with 25% over the next 4 years.
I’m not sure at all, that IF Tesla reg.ed all those cars, they will be able to sell them here. The politicians will more than likely come up with a regulation that makes this move illegal as nobody here right now are sure that it is.


#11

How about posting an article from a url that you don’t have to register to read the whole article.


#12

@MikeInNH
You can cheat it, if You stop loading page as soon as it show on the screen.


#13

Here’s another article about it:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2015/11/12/is-tesla-scheming-to-manipulate-tax-laws/

Sounds like Tesla answered their questions and came out OK (no charges against them).

What I take from it is how government subsidies screw up the market. Here’s what was going to happen:

"Under current law, available incentives for the popular Model S include exemptions from green taxes and exemptions from the vehicle registration tax. The vehicle registration tax is slated to expire at the end of 2015: that’s just 49 days away. Without the exemption, the price of the Model S would increase from about 650,000 kroner ($97,233 US) to around 1.8 million kroner ($269,262 US).

That three-fold increase in price, alleged the Danish government, creates the perfect opportunity to manipulate pricing. And that is what Lauritzen alleged was happening. According to Lauritzen, 2,500 electric cars, which were “most likely Teslas,” were recently registered in the country."


#14

A number of countries are phasing out their electric car subsidies and have seen their sales plummet. Today’s cheap gas and the high price differential are deterrents. The Chevy Volt which should have the best of both worlds, is not selling very well either.

If the Volt sold at $3000 or so above a similarly equipped Cruze, it could be more successful.


#15

I still don’t get how Europeans tolerate 200% taxation.


I was taught that it’s morally wrong for a government to do this; that it’s morally right for citizens to embrace the black market in such instances. It’s the ethical justification for the Boston Tea Party, the Whiskey Rebellion…and many others.


And yet, Europeans pay triple the market rate for fuel, cars, and other “double plus ungood” products without blinking. I’d feel an ethical obligation to at least TRY to circumvent the system!


#16

Europe is a different society. Applying American standards isn’t meaningful. They have health insurance and national retirement systems, both paid by the government. That translates to much higher taxes. They choose to tax things they want to discourage, like all things automotive. They have comprehensive public transportation, and want you to use that first. Gasoline and new cars are two of the many things European governments tax to provide the citizens with the benefits they want. As an example, my father in law lived in Germany until he was about 20, working in a dairy. That earned him a small retirement from the German government that he collects today, in the United States, where he has lived since he was 20, for the last 67 years. He thinks it’s nuts too, but you better believe he collects it.


#17

The Tesla management should be fired if they don’t take advantage of every benefit they are given by any country they operate in. Musk has investors besides himself, and he has to keep them happy. He has to keep himself happy. Missing great opportunities to make sales by playing the rules (legally) will not endear a manager to the company’s owners, and has to be dealt with. That usually means he is fired.


#18

ok4450, “Millions of tax dollars and using prison inmates to build them while paying inmates 90 cents an hour; all touted as an “economic boost” and “creating well paying jobs”.
I guess 90 cents an hour is decent pay for someone who has to spend off hours locked up.”

Let me tell you something, if anyone thinks I’m going to prison, where they expect me to work, is nuts. I expect color t.v., 3 squares a day, health coverage, my own crib with paid for utilities, (love protracted hot showers) freshly laundered sheets, a weight room, a library with internet access, a college education, and a heart transplant (in California) for free, baby! 90 cents an hour! I won’t do it, I tell ya. I know my rights and I refuse to do hard labor, or labor of any kind. I’ve paid my fair share of taxes and I demand my slice of the apple, baby.


#19

“I still don’t get how Europeans tolerate 200% taxation.”

It pays for their huge social welfare system. In WWII the Nazis recruited from the underclass and the welfare system was put in place because they are scared to death the under class will rise up again. I know its a huge generalization but that’s how it was explained to me by a pretty well connected guy who lived through the whole thing. No under class, no worry of a repeat. It has some logic but in the process you end up destroying personal initiative, increasing citizen complacency, and strengthening government control over people. Coming to a theater near you.


#20

I don’t think I’d want to take a protracted hot shower, in a prison. . . . for reasons that should be obvious. . . .