You dont need to pull or drop the pan on any TL…the oil pump is right there in front of them as they are doing the T-Belt. Some shops have no respect man… I personally replace every seal in front of me after removing the T belt covers… Cam, crank, Oil pump if applicable… Balance shafts if applicable…basically renew everything under that poor T belt cover so it can make it to the next 60-90K without issues.
Blackbird
Tester is correct about seal replacement. Someone might get away with not doing that on almost new car with very little age and miles and if there is a warranty reason for going into the belt cover.
Otherwise, it’s correct and prudent to replace the seals whether they’re leaking or not.
It’s the same reason behind replacing an engine rear main seal and/or transmission torque converter seal when either the engine or transmission is out of the car.
The DIYer at home can certainly cut corners if they want but the person who does the job for hire should do it correctly as Tester mentioned; for the peace of mind of both mechanic and customer.
The oil pan is bolted to the bottom of the oil pump housing;
Removal
1.Drain the engine oil.
2.Remove the timing belt.
3.Remove the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor.
4.Remove the rocker arm oil control solenoid/oil filter assembly.
5.Remove the oil pan.
6.Remove the oil screen (A).
7.Remove the mounting bolts and the oil pump assembly (B).
this 1/2" drive impact socket is right up YOUR alley
Here is a drawing of the oil pump, the oil pan must be removed and resealed if the oil pump is removed;
Tester writes …
Any mechanic worth their salt replaces the crank and camshaft seals when doing a timing belt/water pump replacement.
To clarify, it’s the front crank seal that usually gets replaced on a timing belt job, not the rear. Replacing the front one is easy, the rear, not so much.
Edit: As far as the oil leak, it seems like it would be hard to tell if that’s actually where the leak is, unless the area was cleaned off thoroughly and the leak returned. Any oil that leaks, from the valve covers, the oil filter, the oil pan, whatever, it gets blown around like crazy under the car, it’s a 70 mph wind tunnel down there. Suggest to ask them if they’ve confirmed it is that seal that is actually leaking by doing the clean and watch method.
I think I can tell the difference between a valve cover gasket leak and oil pump leak 
Well, at least this debacle has generated some really good discussion!
Another update: They finally got back to me. Their mechanic, with “20 years of experience,” “inspected the pulley and it’s fine. It’ll last at least until the next timing belt service, guaranteed.”
I bit back the question about whether this was the same 20-year-guy who banged up my wheel (which, btw, they claim is corrosion). But I did ask what would happen if the pulley seized in 60k miles and screwed up the timing belt, taking the engine with it. “Oh, just call us.”
… “OK. Willing to put down in writing that you guarantee this pulley will last 105k miles and if it breaks, you’ll fix it and anything that gets wrecked as a result?”
Of course, they can’t do that. I pointed out that when it’s my money on the line they’re willing to make promises and 100% guarantees but as soon as it becomes their money on the line they’re apparently much less confident in their predictions. That got the SM to say he’ll “do some more digging” and call back today.
Apparently their mechanic has xray vision and can actually see inside the pulley to know if things are starting to wear or not. It just seems to me that as long as you’re right there you might as well just swap it out.
This is why it’s so important to set expectations before the work begins. I’m sure they see the gamut of customers with varying expectations. From yours, which is: while you’re there, replace anything that is a risk of failing and already easy to access. To the other extreme which is don’t spend one more dime than absolutely necessary!
I don’t recall seeing it mentioned but did you set this expectation with them prior to the work? If so, they owe you to open it back up and do it right IMO.
I’ve had these conversations with mechanics and rebuilders I have dealt with in the past. I tell them right up front- I want it done right, not cutting corners. I’m willing to pay for all the necessary parts and labor to do the job correctly the first time. It typically has the additional effect of them going the extra mile for me…
The drawing that Nevada provided looks very similar to the one used in the 4 cylinder engine and the seal that was leaking on mine is the one labeled O-ring. When it leaks, oil comes out the front of the pump and eventually on the ground.
I agree that the mechanic could tell that it was leaking and did not need x ray vision to know that. At this point in time, I agree that it was needed, but mine was replaced for an additional $10 and not the $600+ you were charged.
The mechanic might have been doing me a big favor. He had a car in one bay that needed customer approval to make an additional repair that the vehicle needed and the customer was not going to be available for about 4 hours. I was dropping my car off at noon for the repair the next day. This saved the mechanic (Honda dealer mechanic) 4 hours of dead time.
I happened to catch him as he was discussing the situation with the service writer, so things worked out, and I got to talk with the actual guy doing the work. This was also a rare case where the service writer was also a car guy, he restored 50’s vintage cars in his spare time. It was nice to be able to talk to a service writer that actually had a clue for a change.
BTW, he saved all my old parts and that o-ring had definitely been leaking.
@TwinTurbo Yes. I specifically told them to replace the water pump, tensioner, and idler pulley. The service adviser countered that they usually only replaced those things if they inspected them and found them to be bad, but I said no, replace them regardless.
Final update: After speaking with the SM they did a 180. They’re putting in the pulley and fixing the wheel along with an apology. I’m sure they dislike me now and think I’m an unreasonable pill, but… Hey, I want this car to last at least another 100k and I therefore intend to maintain it properly.
Good on you for standing your ground!
It would be different if they hadn’t gotten explicit instructions from you.
Now they know you’re not going to just roll over and accept something when they don’t fulfill your requests. At least they’re not making your sandwich. I wouldn’t go back there then
At least they’re not making your sandwich. I wouldn’t go back there then
No kidding, yes!? As it is I’m glad I won’t be needing to take the car back to them any time soon, if ever.
This is another notch in the mental notebook of why I tend to prefer to do my own car work when possible. Despite the fact that I’m perfectly willing to stand my ground, it’s not exactly my favorite thing to have to do, and besides all that the honest truth is that (quite understandably) no one is ever going to care about my car as much as I do.
Next time I’m gonna shelve the nervousness of screwing up and just swap the belt myself.
100% echo my sentiments exactly!
