Repair cost discussion


#1

Just looking for a second opinion. Got my '07 TL into the dealership for t-belt/water pump replacement. They called and said my oil pump is seeping oil and they need to re-seal it.

I’m having them send me pictures to verify, but assuming it really is seeping, they want an extra $690 to do the job. This seems steep to me since the only thing they have to remove for it that they haven’t already removed for the T-belt is the oil pan. They’re not replacing the pump, just resealing it. What do you pros think? Am I off base here?


#2

@shadowfax
Refresh My Memory. What’s A TL (Make, Model)?

We don’t have TLs around here, but I can look stuff up.

How can they tell the oil pump’s leaking? Is the some of the pump visible inside the t-belt cover?

"This seems steep to me since the only thing they have to remove for it that they haven’t already removed for the T-belt is the oil pan."
There is what’s called over-lap. When some parts are removed to perform a service operation then that should lower the price of another operation that requires the same parts be removed.
When I worked at dealers it was sometimes lucrative to not consider over-lap. Caveat Emptor.

I’d call a couple of places and get labor rates for t-belt, oil pump reseal, and both together. Trust, but verify.
CSA


#3

The oil pump assembly on your engine is mounted on the front of the engine, not behind the oil pan.

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/auto-parts/2007/acura/tl/type-s-trim/5-speed-automatic-engine/engine-cat/oil-pump-scat

So if they’re saying that the oil pump is seeping oil, it’s from the crankshaft seal. Which should be replaced as normal practice along with the camshaft seals when replacing the timing belt/water pump.

Tester


#4

Sorry @“common sense answer” - Acura TL, 2007. 3.2 L engine.

@Tester I don’t have my shop manual in front of me because I’m at work. Are you sure it’s normal practice to replace oil seals in a T-belt job? From what I remember you replace the belt, tensioner, idler, and water pump. I don’t remember reading about the oil seals.


#5

Any mechanic worth their salt replaces the crank and camshaft seals when doing a timing belt/water pump replacement.

Tester


#6

Maybe I now know why they quoted a cheaper price than anyone else in town for the t-belt job. :pensive:

This is why I do most of my own car work. I just wanted someone to blame if the T-belt went bad and destroyed the engine. Guess I get to pay extra for that peace of mind this time.


#7

If the oil pump is leaking between the pump and block replacing the crankshaft seal won’t help. The oil pump will need to be removed to reseal it.


#8

“I’m having them send me pictures to verify, but assuming it really is seeping, they want an extra $690 to do the job.”

I’d certainly question that $690. I’d ask how many hours of additional labor to do this, once you’re already paying to tear it down to the lower T-Belt Pulley. $690 seems like it’s for the seal based on that repair alone. I’d ask what they’re subtracting for over-lap labor.
CSA


#9

They say it’s leaking between the pump and the block, yes. They sent me photos and there is oil there, and it looks like it’s been building up for a good while. Never enough to drip, but enough to form layers of gunk. I’m just going to have to hope that they’re right, since I can’t go look at it myself, that it’s really leaking from the seal and it isn’t leaking from the drain plug and blowing back to there. Probably not, since I did the last oil change on it myself and didn’t see any evidence of a leak from the drain plug.

They are subtracting overlap labor. They’re charging me for 4 hours instead of 10. My big question is whether it’s really a 4 hour job. I looked into the work required, and you have to remove the timing belt (already done) and the oil pan (needs to be done). I’m not entirely convinced it will take 4 hours to remove the pump and the oil pan, and to squirt Hondabond on both, but then I’ve never done a job like this on this particular car.

I do see that replacing the oil pan gasket should cost around $450 in my area, so perhaps the $690 is roughly in line with where it should be since they’re adding oil pump r&r along with it.

Still, a bit of sticker shock there. The job is now close to what I paid for each of my first 2 cars! :wink:


#10

I’m not sure about the additional 4 hours for the job. If you drop the pan then there is some time to really clean out the pan (possible sludge and gunk build up) and clean away all the old gasket to get the new one bonded properly. Some of these gaskets don’t come off in one piece and it can be a nasty job to remove all the old gasket and sealants used at the factory. I think extra time is being built in in case there is some extra messiness once the pan gets dropped.


#11

Unbelievable.
CSA


#12
Any mechanic worth their salt replaces the crank and camshaft seals when doing a timing belt/water pump replacement.

I’ve NEVER done it and the only leak I developed was on my 98 Pathfinder, but that was well north of 300k miles. I know very few mechanics that replace those seals. Cam seals (maybe)…but definitely never crank seals.


#13

Anytime I replace a timing belt kit, I replace it with one that INCLUDES the crank and cam seals.

Here’s a timing belt kit for this engine with the seals.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=3069894&cc=1437437&jsn=430

And if the seals aren’t included in the kit, I purchase them separately.

Tester


#14

That does say “where required” for the seals. I do know that the block seal (and the oil pan seal for that matter) is just done by squirting Hondabond on the parts, so it wouldn’t come in any kit.


#15

“Any mechanic worth their salt replaces the crank and camshaft seals when doing a timing belt/water pump replacement.”

“I’ve NEVER done it and the only leak I developed was on my 98 Pathfinder, but that was well north of 300k miles. I know very few mechanics that replace those seals. Cam seals (maybe)…but definitely never crank seals.”

The last timing belt I did was on my 3.5L DOHC Intrepid, several years ago. I Did replace the seals. If I hadn’t I just know that the things would have started leaking and I was right there, almost done with everything necessary to replace them and it cost a couple of bucks.

I did however order one special tool extra (puller I think it was) (already had an order to go in) and made another (seal installer I think it was) to make it go a little smoother, but well worth it. I saved hundreds of dollars DIY.

I did feel that to do the timing belt/pump/tensioner job correctly that I should replace the crank and cam seals.
CSA


#16

If you chose to fix it at a later date would it be the same price? If so I ask how much it is leaking and can I put off the repair, maybe from and independent mechanic.


#17

No, because they’d have to remove the timing belt to get at it. Since it’s already removed for the scheduled replacement, it’s cheaper to do it now.


#18

Update: I had them do the oil pump seal just to be sure. They buttoned it back up, and I noticed there was no mention of an idler pulley on the invoice. Questioned them about it. “Well it looked fine so we didn’t replace it.”

That’s not the point. The timing belt probably looked fine too, but you replace it anyway.

Oh, and they also beat the hell out of my wheel when they used the impact gun on the lugs. It’s all scarred and the paint is gone from 4 of the 5 holes.

I’m so happy with them right now. :pensive: They’re calling back later to discuss the matter. I will expect a repaired wheel, and since that’s probably not possible, a replacement wheel. I will also expect them to either go back in and replace the idler like they should have, or guarantee in writing that the idler will not fail until the next service interval and that they will pay all damages if it does.

… Something tells me they won’t be amenable to any of this and I’ll end up having to take it up the chain.


#19

I expect that “up the chain” taught those guys you have been dealing with everything they know.


#20

Yours is a newer model and a V6 engine, but when I took my 97 Accord with a 4 cylinder engine in for the timing belt job, they did the water pump and all the oil seals. When the mechanic got everything apart, he noticed that the oil pump seal (not the crankshaft seal) was leaking. I suspected something as the car had started to lose some oil between oil changes, and it was leaking.

I approve the additional work, which was $10 and when he got through, the engine didn’t leak any more oil, not a drop. He also returned all the old parts. I looked up the oil seal in the FSM and I would have done this job myself IF I could have gotten that crank pulley bolt off. They use a 3/4" drive impact wrench that developed 1200 ft lbs of torque. I only had a 1/2" 600 ft lb impact.