Done! 
Thanks for the suggestion.
I thought that might be the case, but since the thread was not quite conforming I thought id leave it off the beaten path. not that I m big on conformity, obviously, but starting a right - left blame game was not my intention, and I had the feeling it might turn that way. that was why I changed the title to begin with. I figured letting it die quietly might be best.
I have a rebellious streak, but I don t want to be the cause of partisan rancor as I think it is one of our countries biggest threats. at the moment.
@RodKnox.
I agree. CarTalkers seem to be very well behaved, respectful and generally very well mannered. Sports forums that I occasionally frequent can get you blindsided by insults. When that happens, I casually remind them of outlets like this forum who are respectful. It worksā¦sometimes , to the few who have less free time on their hands to put up with insults. But in general I agree. Having cars in common keeps personal feelings at bay that on other topics that can be volatile. There is politics in owning and buying cars whether we like it or not. But we all have more in common then those slight differences. For one thing, we all like cars, getting greasy and wearing dirty old coveralls while using a compressor, the ultimate āI am a car man statementā and āi donāt have time or the inclination to talk trashā.
i ve spent a bit of time on the npr site attempting to convince people that now was a time for us to stand together as americans recently. i have to say that while many seemed to agree, there were a few zealots that used the recent events to be even more divisive. many of the supporters of the president, of which i m not one, were really terribly hard on him for daring to help those poor people at all. i see why he was almost apologetic in his initial statement announcing our help.
there were people actually saying let the genocide and territorial conquest continue because it was āover thereā and did not effect us here. that we were safe and not threatened by isis. they could not possibly hurt us, they were āover thereā. memories are short. they promised to bring it here. just like bin laden did. i believe them. of course i believe stopping the inhumanity is reason enough. but i believe we are threatened and it is in our self interest to assist in the stopping of isis
so i ve done what i can here to encourage unity now, so we are free to disagree later.
@cdaquilaā, You are not a tin pot dictator, you are a Czarina! Carolyn the Great!
The Carter administration left me bankrupt but I didnāt file, then when Reagan came to office I felt he was too soft on deadbeats. Being self employed and struggling can lead to a bitter take on the national economic situation and the hard core on the right today finds a great deal of caustic support from small business owners. I understand their angst and bitterness. But somewhere in the Reagan administration it occurred to me that the outrageous tax rate that I was paying wasnāt due to lazy irresponsible people.
First of all many of my customers had been honest, dependable, hard working people trying to support their families, taking additional part time jobs to cover their bills when their full time jobs went without a pay increase and inflation ate away the value of their wages year after year. I saw customerās homes foreclosed, cars repossessed, and their families disintegrate in the face of the appalling economic decline that they had no influence over and no opportunity to survive.
Somewhere in the years since then I became aware of the tax cuts for those who least needed them while wages remained at poverty levels for those who most needed and deserved help. And as the wealth has become more concentrated to a lucky few who have successfully lobbied to further reduce their tax rates and simultaneously successfully lobbied to keep wages at poverty levels to keep the bull market roaring the dilemma of the haves and have nots has worsened. But those who enjoy all the best are currently able to rally a great many who are struggling to come to their aid. Itās amazing.
I hope I didnāt spoil this thread.
sounded like intelligent reasonable discussion to me rod
the ability to change your opinion as you become aware of things you were not previously aware of is just what we need in my opinion.
blindly sticking to either side is what i think divides us.
loyalty to party should not trump loyalty to the ideals of our nations founding.
you can point out what you consider is wrong without hatred, as you have ably demonstrated
i personally think each party is 1/3 right.
that leaves one third that they are both wrong about.
I in WI have been so burned by the we don;t have to listen, we are going to do it anyway I will never vote republican again.
Went to speak against a sulphide ore mine that would be catastrophic to the envirnment. Previous law mining can occur when it has been shown safe, now sulfuric acid runoff and filling in lakes and streams with tailings is ok. Pro supporters got more than the allotted time, no hearings in the communities affected, never got to speak, passed, and I am sure you all heard about lowering damages to 150k for corporations accused of negligence, or not being able to collect damages for discrimination cases, but just to show you how it goes, I am sure you heard of act 10, demolishing the union, and the judge ruled the senate does not have to abide by their own rules, because they are the ones that made them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUA1DJIJOZs
Add into that they ran fake democrats and fake websirts for democrats, http://host.madison.com/news/local/writers/steven_elbow/republicans-unveil-fake-mary-burke-website-at-maryburke-com/article_2e0e9400-5022-5149-bb3b-68b8d816c470.html http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-republican-fake-websites-democrats-20140207-story.html
The reality is that even two people who grew up in the same household, attended the same schools, and are of equal intelligence and education can read the same information and draw diametrically different opinions. It happens all the time. Been to a family gathering lately? Been involved in elder-care decision making with siblings?
Itās all part of being human. The important thing is to respect the person even if disagreeing with the opinion. Saying "that law should not have passed becauseā¦ " is very different from saying āyouāre an idiot if you think that law should have passed.ā. The former is a debate response, the latter is a personalized insult. Unfortunately, there are those who use the latter approach to debating.
Even worse is attacking someone personally with insinuations and false accusations because you disagree with his politics. IMHO the worst example of this ever was the treatment of Robert Bork during his SCOTUS confirmation hearings. That was so bad and so blatent that it added the term āgetting borkedā to the American lexicon. If you doubt my word, feel free to google the expression.
For a thread titled ārant and rave,ā this was quite measured and respectful. I think Iāll close on TSMās call for fairness and respect in discourse, and redirect the discussion back toward the automotive domain. Thank you.