Pre-purchase inspection & assessing transmission

Buying/Selling
1

During a pre-purchase inspection of a used car offered for sale by a private party, is there any way to evaluate the condition of the transmission…other than check the odometer, pull the dipstick, then go for a test drive?

I assume that there are at least a few things which might be checked for the engine’s internal condition, but what about assessing an automatic transmission? Can a good shop get any insight? Would that be something normally done during inspection? Is there anything beyond an ordinary inspection that might be a cost effective additional investment?

I presume – without data – that a Toyota transmission might go to 250k if properly serviced, less if the car has been driven mostly in stop-and-go commute traffic. Does anyone have a more informed guesstimate?

I’ve been very lucky buying used cars without a proper pre-purchase inspection, but now I know better. My current ride is a first generation Toyota Sienna. It’s closing in on 9 years and 330,000 miles, still runs and rides very well.

But I’m now reluctant to take off for long road trips, so I’m still looking for second generation Sienna with less than 200k. What – if anything – can be assessed about the tranny before buying?

2

If not a CVT…
On the test drive, drive slow getting up to speed (take your time), feeling for the mph of the shifts and make sure they are all there, remember the TCC even though it can feel like a shift and lower the RPM’s, it does not count as a gear… Then drive a little harder feeling for the shifts, they should be higher MPH wise and sometimes a little firmer… Then do it again but this time giving it 3/4 to full gas pedal feeling the shifts, should be close to redline and firmer… Also check the downshifts…, Make sure the transmission is not hunting gears, oddly up/down shifting for no reason…

Smell the dipstick to see if it has an odor to it, burnt smell or anything not normal, also feel it with your fingers to make sure it doesn’t feel different like someone added some brake fluid to it to swell the seals to help it shift better…

Check the TCM for any pending, history or permanent codes in it…

Other than dropping the pan (if it has one) and looking in it, or draining the fluid into a clean pan looking for anything, there is not much you can do…

We used to test drive and wright down every gear change at what rpm and throttle to check against specs, harder for you to do with no specs out in the field… But you can still get a good feel for what it is doing, manually go through the gears also…
If it shifts good and the atf smells and looks good and feels normal, and no codes it should be OK, but you just never know how long it will last, all depends on how hot the atf has ever gotten if ever… Heat kills ATF and overheated ATF kills transmissions…

Good luck…

4 Likes
3

The thing with Forums you can reply to anything so here goes. I fully understand the Minivan attraction but what I don’t understand is you are taking long trips why are you looking at old vehicles with 200000 miles. If you don’t need that much room have you even looked at the manufactures web sites because their are some nice affordable new vehicles with room .

Since you seem to keep vehicles for a long time a new one for me ( maybe not for you ) would be the plan.

1 Like
4

Thank you @davesmopar for the excellent advice. I appreciate the precise details you explained for checking the shift points at different speeds. I’ll practice this technique using my current Sienna to sharpen my feel for those shifts.Thanks also for the tips on sampling the fluid on the dipstick. I will make sure that any pre-purchase inspection will include reading the TCM and interpreting the codes.

Except for a “unicorn” I stumbled on locally and posted about last spring, I’ve not seen a single second gen Sienna on Craigslist from my area. So I’ll inevitably be buying a car some distance from home. That means I’m not able to rely on my trusted regular independent shop (Toyota / Lexus only) for the inspection. So when I find a tempting candidate in Sacramento or beyond, I call shops near where I’ve found a car, to be informed in advance on their inspection procedures.

Curiously, on a test drive I did last week of a 2006 Sienna, I noticed that it accelerated well from standing start for just a few seconds, then seemed to bog down briefly before picking up again. This felt significantly worse than my own older Sienna, so I repeated the sequence a few times and never felt any difference. I had to presume that this was “second gear” simply not functioning, but maybe that was an engine control issue, or what you described in your reply:

remember the TCC even though it can feel like a shift and lower the RPM’s.

It did indeed feel like that. How would I discriminate between that and a “shift?”

Whatever it was, the car was otherwise (and emphatically) not acceptable. Among other things, the seller had disclosed in the ad that the CEL was on; he said it had a code which I think was for the knock sensor. Car was “priced accordingly” for that CEL (but not for the dismal overall condition of the car). Two days later, the car had dropped off Craigslist – presumably bought by someone on a budget even tighter than mine. I hope they got lucky.

Again, thank you for your very useful suggestions.

5

how often do you go on long road trips, or plan to?

When buying the current car for my wife (2019 Rav4,) she was hesitant as sometimes we take road trips and need more space for family. We talked about a Highlander or Sequoia. But the added up front expense didn’t really make much sense for the once or twice a year we may take a big road trip.
We have rented mini-vans for the couple big road trips we have taken (not counting the trips we flew to,) and it has worked out well.

If you take lots of trips, then maybe something newer would be better and more reliable for you. If not too many trips, could renting for those trips and just keeping the reliable daily driver you have now be an option?

6

The answer is simple, I’m on a tight budget, but I want to spend my time exploring the western states.

Beyond that, I’m using the car in ways that will get it dirty, scuffed up, often driving on bumpy unpaved roads far off the beaten track. So it’s going to get dirty inside and out. Minor scuffs and dings are irrelevant…and inevitable. I don’t want to pay for pristine or pretty. I’m satisfied with functional but not dilapidated. I don’t want “info-tainment” systems, built-in internet connectivity, or other latest / greatest technology. Mechanical condition is my priority.

I’m not trying to impress anyone, just want to get out of town for weeks at a time, experiencing national parks, wilderness areas, and other wide open spaces and small towns. I know my way around the west.

My current high mileage Sienna has proven to be – by far – the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned, even though I acquired it with the highest mileage of any car I’ve ever owned (estimated at 275k). So now I’m able to afford a car in the 150k to 200k range. Experience with three Dodge Caravans has taught me to stick with Toyota.

I DO need all that room. First of all, I sleep inside on a “platform” I built 25 years ago with assorted drawers underneath for clothing, gear, kitchen items, pantry, tools, etc. This platform has been in two Caravans, and now the Sienna. My bed is a sleeping bag with foam pad that rolls up. I sleep fine on that. In daytime, the sleeping bag insulates my ice chest.

Living in my vehicle for many weeks and doing outdoor activities, I need varied choices of backpacks and gear, clothing and footwear for different activities and weather, not to mention cooking items and space for food storage, camera gear and tripods, and of course an ice chest (may soon move up to a small refrigerator). I also carry a few books and lots of maps, a compact folding chair, tools shovel, rope, water containers, solar shower, a small power bank for laptop and phone charging, rechargeable batteries, assorted lighting…and a partridge in a pear tree.

As a master of compact storage, I use every conceivable cubic inch inside my first generation Sienna, plus a bit of roof space. Second gen interior “cargo space” is about 18% greater than first gen…according to Edmunds…so that would be helpful.

It’s important to say also that the ability to move from driver seat to the back without going outside is vitally important. This is in comparison to a pickup truck with a slide in camper. If i’m sleeping and there’s some danger outside, I know where my key is and I can be driving in seconds. Also, my ordinary and frumpy looking car is ideal for “stealth camping” …it allows me to park overnight in small towns without detection. Not so for a Sprinter van.

So a smaller vehicle just won’t serve my needs, nor will a truck/camper rig or Sprinter van. I may eventually look at a full size van, but that’s not anywhere on my horizon now.

And I’m sold on Toyota.

3 Likes
7

Anytime you depress the brake pedal enough to turn on the brake lights you will disengage the TCC, so using your left foot while still driving normally with your right foot, depress the brake pedal enough to turn on the brake lights and the TCC will turn off, and if parameters are there very soon after letting off the brake pedal the TCC will engage again…

Again, you are not trying to slow the vehicle, only enough pressure on the brake pedal to turn on the brake lights, you can practice that somewhere where you can see your brake light safely sitting still with the engine running…

1 Like
8

@eddo
I appreciate the question, it’s one I consider occasionally. Thank you for the comment…it’s food for thought.

Typically, I do long trips in the summer, but also like to wander off on shorter trips to the coast or redwoods, over the pass to the “east side” of the Sierra for a few days of hiking or kayaking, often on spur-of-the-moment. So while the concept of renting a travel rig makes sense, for now I think it doesn’t work for me.

But I agree with you that buying one larger vehicle sized for your family trips is a waste of money most of the year, and renting makes sense.

From the time I bought the old Sienna 9 years ago, it has been my only vehicle. It serves as my “work truck” for hauling tools, equipment, and supplies to my rental property, mainly for ongoing yard work related to trees and the woodsy location, especially after harsh winter storms. I also use if for hauling firewood and making dump runs with my small utility trailer.

Then for trips, all the tools come out, and the Sienna is thoroughly cleaned and transformed into my road trip rig. That works well enough, it’s a minor hassle but not a problem. My custom “platform” remains in the car all the time. If the mileage was half what it is, it’s a workable and acceptable solution which also saves money.

But now that I’m increasingly cautious about the high mileage on the Sienna, I’ve decided to buy another minivan with far lower mileage…and keep the trusty old one as my work truck.

It’s running fine for now, so I’ll use it as long as it lasts without spending much more than for oil changes, registration, insurance. The timing belt is almost new, but now it needs new motor mounts, axles, and valve cover gaskets, all of which would be done at the same time due to the labor / opportunity costs. But all that would cost more than the car is worth.

So the newer Sienna would become my daily driver and double as my road trip rig, but not get quite so dirty from tools etc. The old Sienna would probably last as long as I own the property, and I’ll have fewer miles on the “newer” Sienna.

So I think this is the best solution to my needs…if I can find the right second generation Sienna.

Thank you again for your perspective, I appreciate that.

1 Like
9

Good info, I’ll use it. Thanks.

1 Like
10

I’ve had my share of transmission overhauls and just paid the freight when it was necessary. I’ve also found it can be fine one day and shot the next. Sometimes you can detect slippage but other times it just wore out. Fine when parked but after work only reverse. When I was driving all over the state I had my Buick trans overhauled at 350k just to prevent a failure. The guys said it really didn’t look that bad. It’s not the end of the world to budget a few thousand for an overhaul but mileage doesn’t seem to be a good indicator.

When the dealer oh my olds trans they apologized for it going out at 80k. I said no that was 180k. It had already spun around once, before they added the extra digit. I have only one shop that I trust now and change fluid every 30k.

1 Like
11

Me thinks it might make more sense to look for a low mileage camper van that was made just for camping purposes .

12

After a quick look at car complaints . com, I’d be looking for another first gen Sienna over the 2nd gen.

1 Like
13

No thanks, but I appreciate the suggestion…

I want a daily driver for most of the year which will ALSO serve as my road trip rig.

• I absolutely don’t want a clumsy camper van as my daily driver.
• I can’t justify the initial cost of something that just sits around being useless for 8 months of the year (or more).
• The built-in structure is inefficient use of space compared to what I have now, so not useful to me.
• A dedicated camper van is far far more obvious, eliminating most stealth camp options.
• I need capability to carry kayaks and canoes, so a low fixed roof is a top priority.

14

Have you considered a Ford Transit work van ? A friend has one and does pretty much the same type of use you do .

My last post because you know what you need I just think getting newer and more modern is best . I am out of here.

15

Hmmm, I’ll look into that, thank you.

I do like the way my 1999 Sienna feels, handles, and responds, so I admit to struggling now over the choice between first and second generation…(at least first gen starting in 2001 when VVT-I was introduced, giving the engine 16 more horsepower). Before I put money into gen2, I suppose I should ask my neighbor who has a 2004 if she would let me drive her car a bit to better understand how it handles compared to my1999. My front struts are just a couple years old, which surely helps.

I understand (and it’s logical) that the 2004 Sienna (first year of that generation) had some issues which were resolved by 2005. I don’t know details.

Being a subscriber to the Youtube channel “The Car Care Nut”, I saw his video about Toyota’s best and worst engines. I’ll attach the link below. The 2004-2006 Sienna engine was included, but NOT the first generation (1998-2003) nor the new engine released for 2007 – which had a timing chain instead of a belt.

The youtube creator, “AMD” worked more than a decade for a Toyota dealership before starting his own Toyota / Lexus shop. He identifies himself as a Toyota Master Diagnostic Technician. His presentations are a level above anything else I’ve seen on Youtube on automobiles, and AMD himself is simply first class.

His shop near Chicago has youtube fans wishing they lived closer. He has 1.17 million subscribers.

Recently, he solved a problem for a customer who brought his car all the way from Virginia, about 750 miles, because the VA dealership could not solve a very dangerous condition related to steering.

AMD identified the problem in less than 15 minutes.

He also recognized that the Virginia dealership was at fault from the very beginning of the dangerous condition of this car, which had spanned a full year.

“Best and Worst Toyota Engines”

“Dealership couldn’t fix a problem”

16

Redirecting to part of my original post…does anyone have any broad knowledge of typical lifespan of a Toyota transmission?

I offered a guess that a well maintained and not abused Toyota transmission might survive for 250,000 miles. But just a pure guess with no substantiation at all.

Can anyone offer something better than my uninformed guess?

17

What year and model??

I have seen the 9th gen Corollas go 500,000 miles on the transmissions…
Drive around local transmission shops and you will see the trouble makers… lol

2 Likes
18

I have seen the 9th gen Corollas go 500,000 miles on the transmissions…

Wow, that’s cool. Amazing that the car would last that long.

Well, just what I’ve been discussing, Sienna 2005-2006, or maybe 2001-2003.

I would assume, with nothing more certain than a wild guess, that a heavier vehicle like a minivan would wear out a transmission sooner than a Corolla.

And besides the greater weight of a minivan itself, with more seats, there might be more passengers on board more often, for additional load on the transmission. Another extra load would be towing a small travel trailer or sailboat. That might be not recommended for the humble but reliable Corolla.

And then… there are probably a few minivan owners regulalry pulling a trailer loaded with compost for the garden, or junk for the dump or – perish the thought– oak firewood or road rock. i confess to all those (mostly the firewood…and I have a fairly steep driveway).

I have to believe that heavy use must shorten the life of the transmission. I guess I’ll know soon enough if I’m wrong.

1 Like
19

@It_s-Me
Thanks for the link to CarComplaints.

The first page graph by year was quite surprising, and just as you had suggested. I appreciate the heads-up. I’ll study this further tomorrow night.

This may have swayed the needle back slightly toward first generation Sienna.

Heck, for about 5 grand, I could replace all the motor mounts and suspension bushings and axles and valve cover gaskets and even get a Maaco paint job.on my current Sienna and easily drive the thing to 400,000 miles. My timing belt is good to go beyond that! And I’d save the sales tax I’d have to spend buying a replacement minivan. Cool!

Anyone know the mileage record for1999 Sienna engine?

20

Sorry, you had just asked about the Toyota trans, Corolla was an example, just like the engine and chassis, the Corolla has a different transmission than the Van also…

Those years Sienna (and a lot of other vehicles) 4 speed automatic transmissions don’t seem to have much problems with them, treated right with proper maintenance and they could go the distance…

The 5 speed automatic transmissions have been known to have some valve body issues causing some bind-up or flare on 2-3 shift, slips with throttle in 3rd and/or 4th, TCC slip codes as well as solenoid performance codes. That can be caused by a worn-out TCC boost valve and bushing. When the TCC boost valve and bushing wear out, the computer can no longer control the apply rate of the lock-up as it is supposed to, also a worn-out solenoid modulator valve bore, the purpose of solenoid modulator valve is to limit the pressure going to solenoids, it is necessary to prevent more fluid from being fed to the solenoids than they can effectively regulate and to limit what max line pressure output is.
The OEM aluminum clutch apply control valve is also prone to sticking in its bore causing 2-3 shift complaints. They can also have worn boost valves…
If caught early enough and not ignored, the valve body can be removed and rebuilt with proper replacement parts (kit) or for much more money, a new one that will do the same thing again down the road or a upgraded one that will go the distance…