Yes dipstick should take precedence.
But at most shops, they check the book, add the spec’d amount, and call it good. That’s common practice and I’ve never heard of an engine being damaged because a shop put in 4.5 qts instead of 4.0 qts. Maybe someone else here has.
This discussion is pretty much over, but my thought is that the engineers that designed these engines work with metric system measures, and the conversion to US measures for things like quarts and ounces is just wrong. It sounds an awful lot like a full drain from a warm engine, with a new filter, would take 4 liters of oil for a refill, but good luck buying liters of oil in the US.
Thanks, I do check the oil level at fueling or at Costco after letting it sit for a few minutes. I remind her to check the level but usually falls to me. That is how I experimented knowing that the oil level stays at “full” up to 3000 miles. Once the oil gets dirty, I assume that it causes the oil to break down; another possibility is that the “short” trips my wife takes causes some fuel seepage past the cylinders, when cold, and into the oil making it look like the level is representative of oil when it may have some gas in it.
Who knows.
Agree, check the dipstick often and don’t let it get that low. None of my cars have. There are no metal flakes in the oil that has been changed out. A very good thing.
@jesmed
Depends on what “book” the shop is using
Good point on the metric. However, the dealership says it is not a typo/conversion issue. They usually put 4.2 to 4.3 qts in. This is just above the “full” level but not too much above to draw complaints from owners that check their engine oil levels. However, they do it to lower complaints versus understanding what is correct. Complaints cause rework and cost them time and money.
You’re changing the oil at 3000 miles to keep the level from dropping too much?
How about checking the level every 1000 miles (that’s what I do), adding oil as necessary to keep it at the full mark, and changing it every 5000 miles or 6 months (I go up to 1 year).
The 3000 mile change is pretty much obsolete for all but the most severe conditions.
Modern oils hold up just fine for 5000 miles.
I change the oil at 3000 miles because that is what my father talk me to do years ago to prolong engine life. It is also consistent with what my Toyota fleet requires. Because of it, they do not burn oil (1993 toyota landcruiser with 195K miles).
The new engine specifications have perhaps changed things a bit with the minimal clearances causing a need for lower viscosity oils to be used. In this case 5W20. I do not use synthetic because of cost. Perhaps this is “old school” but 3000 mile frequency was also suggested by a Toyota mechanic. I do check the oil level when I drive my wife’s care and try, more frequently once i had concern over the level in the vehicle after the first oil change i performed versus the dealer changes.
Again, i was surprised when this vehicle responded in this way. I have never experienced this with a Toyota in performing a simple oil change.
Regarding the 5000 mile discussion, on my other vehicles, i track my mileage every time I fill. My mileage decreases as the age of my oil increases (# of miles on it). This occurs around the 3000 mile mark. It is cost effective to change the oil at 3000 miles in order to increase the mileage and save money on fuel. Cahnge in mpg can range from 2 to 5 mpg. If you have the opportunity, take the time to measure this effect with your vehicle. It is consistent across not only my Toyota fleet, but also my 1990 isuzu pickup, and 2003 Dodge caravan.
I also check the oil at most fueling opportunities in all cars. I am proud to say that I have trained my 25 year-old daughter to check her oil as well as my 22 year-old son. She inherited the 1995 Camry and does not want to spend money on a replacement. She realizes that the oil in an automobile is similar to the blood in a human being. Without it, the car dies. She checks it but brings it home for Dad to change. That is OK.
Well, guess we beat this dead horse to death! It has been a fun discussion while watching the Seahawks win the SuperBowl!!!
My '88 Accord had 230k miles and no oil consumption when I sold it.
A friend bought it and it still uses no oil at 280k miles.
Last time I adjusted the valves it was clean under the valve cover.
It also got (dino) oil changes every 5000 miles (Honda recommended every 7500 miles).
I’ve never experienced any MPG changes related to oil age. Never before heard of someone making such a claim.
@Landcrusher You should learn to check your own oil regularly; do it when the car has sat overnight. That will show the actual level. I stopped trusting gas jockeys 33 years ago to check my oil.
Car ownership implies the responsibility to monitor and maintain the vehicle.
As stated, the owner’s manual is nearly always right. The oil capacity for that engine should be listed in liters and quarts (US quarts). If you bought the car in England or Canada it would have Imperial quarts as well. One Imperial quart equals 1.2 US quarts. Our Mazda3 has the capacities in all systems since the car was built in Japan.
So… if you know it takes 4 qts. why the confusion? The answer is really simple put in 4 qts. end of story. I have been changint the oil on my car since new, manual says 4.5 qts with filter yet I know 4 qts. is full on the dipstick. Should i put in 4.5 anyways? No.
My 3.5L Camry says 6.4qts. 6 quarts is what it take to get to the full line and that is what I use. 5k miles with full synthetic is when I change it.
FYI – for more information, I started with the Scion xB owner’s manual. The engine is: 2.4L 4 cylinder (2AZ-FE, no turbo charger, wife’s car) page 260 and engine lubrication 4.5 qt with filter change (page 261). Page 238 shows a diagram for checking the oil level dipstick. Clearly marked above the “top” dipstick mark is a label stating “too full.” 4.5 qts places the oil level above the top mark by 1/2 qt. I have researched this issue with no solid answer but it appears to be prevalent.
The engine referenced regarding the Camry is from 2009 with similar experience and same engine model yields similar response not only on his personal car but on his many client’s Camry automobile as well.
I have a 2000 Toyota Avalon, 1995 Camry, 1972 FJ40, 1975 FJ55, and 1993 FJ80 Toyota Landcruisers. In ALL cases, the capacity measured on the dipstick has been exactly what the manufacturer spec calls for with the total volume of oil placed into the vehicle at the appropriate mark on the dipstick. This is the first “Toyota” product (Scion is a Toyota Product but built in Japan versus in the US) that I have owned that has created a concern regarding the oil change. I have done many and continue to teach my 4 children how to check the oil level and change their oil in their automobiles.
So, If you were not aware that the Toyota and Scion vehicles were the “same” engine and that this is a perplexing issue that continues to not be addressed, please enjoy hopefully additional responses to this post that are enlightening.
For example, the water pump failure on this engine occurs in both the Camry and Scion since it is the same engine.
Reason for concern is that the Previous Owner, had the dealership change the oil at 5000 miles per specs. However, what I have learned is the oil level stays rock solid up to 3000 miles and when it starts to get more miles on the oil, it tends to lose a little oil; probably by minor burning (speculation). However, there is a Toyota technical bulletin on oil burning for this model engine. Therefore, I change the oil every 3000 miles for all my automobiles; including the Scion. My wife drives this vehicle. She does not check her oil level as often as I would like her to. Being short 1/2 qt after a change to ensure that one does not exceed the “too full” dipstick level mark is significant in a vehicle that is known to lose oil - in my case after the initial 3000 miles of wear on the oil. I use Mobile 5000 5W20 per spec.
So, hopefully, now that I have explained my concern more fully, you can understand why I am looking to the Camry issues that are applicable to my situation.
Thanks again, posts welcome.