Well actually that was a decade ago,I dont really like the new tacos.
However I must say this is the most respectful and courteous forum I have had the pleasure to participate in, you people are the salt of the earth and another good thing I’ve noticed,the level of good pragmatic intelligence displayed.
I live in the boonies and its really hard to drop a vehicle for a couple of days and go retrieve it, with distance and work scheduling and all maybe someone will open a true custom shop to turn basic vehicles( I remember what a police Caprice cost in the 90’s- if the company has a line for it-the price is lower)-Kevin
No I used to chew Nissans ear-think it actually helped- but I dont think I ever got to speak with an engineer(a rep I believe)-Kevin
Agree that supply and demand play a major role; that’s why the real cost of almost everything drops when there are a number of suppliers competing. In terms of earnings, cars are now as cheap as they ever were.
When I graduated from college, a car the equivalent of a Toyota Corolla cost me 8 months in gross wages. Today’s graduates will earn enough for that in less than 4 months. And the car will last at least 3 times as long.
The reasons autombiles are so expensive, in your opinion, is that they are all loaded up with many things that were optional luxuries in the past. You can still buy a stripped down Hyundai Accent for about $10,000. No one is stopping you from buying it. But even that little car has a load of things that were extras in the sixties and seventies.
As always, when a new item comes on the market, like High Defintion TVs, the inital cost is high and it starts dropping when more manufacturers start making them, and the volume increases. SMART SHOPPERS DON’T BUY THE FIRST NEW THING THAT ARRIVES ON THE MARKET. Flat screen large TV have come down so fast in price that they are now selling at 1/4 the price they were 6 years ago.
If you want a list of some overpriced items and the main reasons:
- Health foods (scare tactics, snob appeal)
- Any beauty aid such as makeup, creams, etc (vanity)
- New electronic gadgets (high initial production costs, keeping up with the neighbors)
- New women’s fashions (vanity, insecurity)
- “Green products” (snob appeal, fear mongering, polical correctness)
- Any new household product (keeping up with the neighbors, ecological correctness)
The automobile is a mature product, and to answer OP’s question, there is such a vaste choice of new and used cars at attractive prices that if you can’t find what you are looking for, YOU ARE JUST NOT LOOKING, or you just don’t really know what you want.
Hey OP here :.
thanks for the reply-you are of of course correct.Actually my original intent was not to blast manu’s for the cost-but just to stir up original thinking a little bit.
Around here we do not have parity with the rest of the country,so talking about cost reductions or percentage of gross is not as relevant as for the rest of the country.
But that aside for a bit,I’ve seen and realize competition makes the breed better(some of my first new vehicles didnt even have a standard radio)We did have a boom for awhile on things like batteries,gas, oil etc. Its slowly going away ,the prices in real dollars and cents are going up.-But the yearly increases for awhile excedded inflation(wanna guess what a 4dr Blazer cost here in 1992?)
Any way can you not agree that autos would be cheaper if big brother would keep his nose out of the business?All of these superflous safety devices are a pain.The only thing really needed are safety restaints and crush or energy absorbing zones, the next requirment should be an ability to drive safely(we need good drivers ed) and I do not care who hears me say this " there has never been a system that could not be improved"-Kevin
No a reasonable size,power enough to merge in traffic, ac would be nice around 27 mpg,little or no usury, reasonable insurance that actually goes down if you dont participate in accidents.I can get to the dealer if they can give me what I want.The trouble is I’ve been made to look like a whiner-all I’m offering is constructive criticism.
I work construction in a" right to work state" they cant help you out any-but they sure can tell you what to do.And I’ve had to go out and work on poor Widows used cars when I didnt feel like it" for gratis" and let me tell you withuot citing manufacturers name(100k with average care-JUNK)
You are right, luxury item,I’ve had more then one salesperson tell me its a persons second biggest investment-Wrong-an auto is generally a moneypit, with very little Heirloom quality-Kevin
Thanks for your post. In my collection of books I have the original edition of Ralph Nader’s book “Unsafe at Any Speed” which is his indictment of the safety of the US car industry, and particular the Chevy Corvair, which he called a death trap. At the time of writing in 1963, American cars were needlessly dangerous, and safety equipment had to legislated in item by item. Tires were grossly undersize; just look at a restored car (to original) at a show; they’re really skinny.
I did my engineering thesis on the Corvair and found it required careful handling, but in the hands of a good driver, it was OK. Unfortunately this car was aimed at entry level buyers, and young people, who would not likely read the manual. It had different air pressure for front (16 lbs) and rear (28 lbs) to get the neutral handling in this tail-heavy car. The first person to die in the car was a young female California school teacher, who went into a skid and the rear wheel tucked under because of the swing axle, and she flipped; no seat belts in this car.
The rest is history, of course; the book launched the whole consumer movement, and Ralph Nader’s career. And now we find, as you point out, that we have to protect people from themselves. The US driving skill is probably the lowest of any developed country; the driving tests are a joke, and when a horrible crash occurs, the press want to blame the car maker, not the reckless or incompetent driver.
GM even built a demonstration car in the 70s that would survive a head-on 40 mph crash. It was an ugly and heavy looking tank. It’s like making an airplane crashworthy.
Having said all this, the car makers brought this on themselves by building dangerous cars knowingly and always putting profit before safety. Volvo was the only exception to this.
Improving driving skills and fixing dangerous sections of roads is the first step, but a car should at least have the following:
- Front impact protection
- Side impact protection
- Good restraint sytems to keep driver and passengers in place
- Good rollover protection; I rolled over in a 1948 Dodge and escaped with only a scratch.
- Good ventilation system to keep air fresh and CO out.
- Safety glass and smooth interior fixtures
- Sufficiently large tires to prevent failure before wearout.
All these can be had in the cheapest Hyundai or Chevy Aveo, for about $10,000.
Agree with you that antilock brakes, traction control, stability control, active suspension systems, etc are features that have not been proven to save any lives.
The automobile plays a unique role in American life. Since the car is in many areas the only form of transportation, even the least competent person should have a driver’s license in order to get to work. This is very different from Europe and Japan and other developed countries, where good public transportation is everywhere.
Politicians don’t like to force citizens to improve their driving skills, something that is quite acceptable in other countries. There was a lady in England who finally passed her test at age 60 after having failed 30 or so times. In the US that would be “undemocratic” and “discriminatory” to let this fine lady fail.
The overall benefits of all these safety features, that you believe are a waste, are as follows: Since 1955, the miles driven on US roads has gone up by a factor of 16!!, while the traffic death toll has remained the same at 40,000 or so (check with the AAA). You are 16 times safer in a 2009 stripped down car than you were in a 1955 cream puff. Basic safety equipment in a car is not expensive.
Kevin ,where I live there are are probably 50-60 custom shops that will alter your car at a competive cost, whether that is killer stereos, special lights, better seats, upgrade suspensions, etc. My mechanic, who builds dragsters as well, is a GM licensed shop to install turbochargers and other perfomance enhancing equipemnt on pickups and suburbans for heavy trailering. These specialty shops have more flexibility. Just watch “Pimp my Ride” on MTV, or the Speed Channel.
thanks,I used to have that book also.1955vs 2009-you nailed it.have heard people talking about how well an old car held up in a crash(the car did, but the occupants didnt) I really have a hard time convincing some friends that modern autos are supposed to foldup and protect occupants. You remember the RSV from the eighties I believe?,awesome describes it.I would sooner have a totaled vehicle then a bodybag.
Anyway Docnick your points are well taken.Despite what some of my posts may sound like-I want to save the industry,a lot of good men and womans future depends on it-Kevin
Formula 1 racing cars routinely crash at 100 mph or more, and the driver often walks away. Modern cars are designed to crumple and absorb the energy of the impact. The restraining system (belts, air bag) are to absorb most of the rest. The remaining force will be absorbed by the occupant.
Most people think of a safe car as a barrel going over Niagara Falls. Not so; a modern barrel would have an outer coating of crushable materials to ease the shock of hitting any rocks below! The barrel itself would be strong and leak-proof to keep the water out.
It’s interesting that insurance companies used to charge more for a car with airbags than for one without. The reason was the very high replacement cost of airbags ($5000 for a set at that time) and most collisions are low speed with no injury to the driver! In other words, the few high speed fatalities prevented could not offset the very high replacement cost of airbags.
Well sir you are a wealth of interesting information-I had no idea that the insurance companies did it that way.I have been confronted by an insurance agent and been told that something that happened on someone elses policy caused mine to be very high.
I suppose it is better sometimes to let the math dictate the rates, but maybe just maybe some of these safety systemss should be reviewed on a cost,benefit basis.In the end we have to be responsible for our own actions-sadly we seem to think that more safety equipment will cover our sloppy handling-Kevin
My son took driving lessons, has a perfect driving record, but as long as he was male, under 25 and unmarried, he had to pay a very high insurance rate. An incompetent female driver who is married pays a much lower rate. It’s all done by statistical analyis and depending on your circumstances, you’re guilty until you are proven innocent. The companies now have also added your credit rating. Presumably a racing car driver with a perfect driving record but a poor credit risk will pay a high rate!
Your kidding me right?-Kevin
Kevin, if you are referring to my previous post, I am definitely not kidding! Some agencies even cranked in your occupation; musicians, hairdressers, church ministers, casual laborers, migrant workers, and some other categories, would all be put in a Higher Risk category, based on accident history. And they would pay more.
These practices border on true discrimination and violate a number of civil rights codes.
Life insurance companies use your age, health and gender as well as the degree of hazard in your occupation to set rates. My policy says I can’t go sky diving or become a test pilot. Fair enough!
Well Docnick, I was and it is discrimination[do you think political correctness has anything to do with this insanity?] I hate to be a yes man-but you are right on the Life Insurance,we all agree on those terms.
Well it has been apparent to me for a long time some groups are not assesed correctly-Where do I come from on that? experience and observation.-Kevin
Racial descrimination is becoming a thing of the past; it’s just too risky. Instead insurance and finance companies comb through their data and find patterns. Unfortunately, a young male driver or a person in an occupation that is considered “high risk” pays more whether that’s justified or not.
Having said that, Consumers Reports found that when it comes to auto repairs and other types of technical stuff, women paid more for the same kind of work done than men. My wife and I used to go to the same unisex hair salon. I paid $17 for a shampoo and haircut (I have a lot of hair) and a women with short hair would pay about $25-30 for the same thing.
Been out of town for awhile,I know theres some sharks out there-when I dont have time or am to lazy to do my own brakes or other stuff I get the privilage for paying handsomely to get it done. I’m not complaining about the good shops- but I have payed $35 a wheel to get disc brake pads installed (I even had the parts)it didnt even take 15 minutes for (or so it seemed for all 4 wheels) I stood there with my jaw dropping when he charged me $150 that was over 10 yrs ago(I had just bought a set of tires off His partner.So what can you really do when your taken off guard? I wish people were ethical enough to not take advantage of people-there were other shops in that area that sorry.Most of the time i wont even charge a Woman or someone thats hard up-Kevin