Wish Subaru would do away with timing belts-Kevin-(one reason I wont buy one)
What is a “well equipped” Beetle? The one with a fuel gauge? CR has always championed “appliance” cars. Cars that reliable, and a good value for the money, nothing wrong with that, until you think about it, and then look at the vehicles that the Eastern Bloc produced. Reliable (not much to break) and good value. I would trust CR for recommendations on what microwave to get. But as for cars, not so much. The lost all credibility with me about 15 years ago when they had high praise for the Mazda Navajo, but somehow thought the Explorer was a lesser vehicle.
My demands:
- V8 engine
- Rear wheel drive
- Two doors
- Manual transmission
- Either no or fully defeatable traction and stability control
- Keep it around $30k
Timing belts are a relatively inexpensive maintenance item every 8yrs/105k miles. They run about $300-$400 at a dealer.
The H-6(6 cylinder) in Legacy, Outback, Tribeca all use a timing chain.
We know the problem. GM thought that the Lincoln commercial which said that all GM cars look the same was killing GM. They were so stupid as to miss the point that their sameness was killing them, not the commercial. I want room enough to easily use air tools to change shocks on a pickup truck. I want leaf springs on my front axle. I want my 83 Corolla with rear wheel drive, 42 MPG highway, easy to press clutch and 40 minute oil and lube job like I had in 1992. That is too much to ask for these days.
Good that isnt so bad-Kevin
This beetle had A/C, “deluxe” radio (am & fm), automatic, a clock, I believe and not much else. They were referring the small overall size and weight, good fuel economy, good durability and the fact that the average US family had 2 children.
At this time the beetle (and similar size Opels and Fords) was the standard European business and family car.
Car enthusiasts know how to use Consumer Reports car ratings. They read between the lines and absorb only what is important to them. For years CR almost condemned the Hyundai Elantra, a good car, because it did not do well on one impact test. Now they rate the new ones as the best and have downrated the Toyota Corolla. When you are splitting hairs and put it in print it greatly exaggerates minor difference.
Having said all that I still find it one of the best sources of good information on buying a used car. But not as useful in buying a new car, except for specifications such as trunk capacity, fuel mileage, etc.
Leaf springs on my front axle; the last car I saw with that was the 1948 Fords and Mercurys. It continued on pickup trucks; my dad’s 1951 Chevy pickup had leaf front springs. They went out in the late 50s on GM picups.
The Ford Super Duty trucks had front leaf springs up until 2001 or so maybe as late as 2003.
Why cant the carmakers ask us what we want and can afford?
Those are often diametrically opposed requirements!
Ever been in a focus group? Know anyone who has? You’re not alone. I don’t like half the cra…er…stuff on TV and no one has ever asked my opinion about that either. Cars are a different deal though, you vote directly with your wallet. However, most of the time, it comes down to the lesser of all evils rather than the perfect match. So I don’t think that message comes back very clear either.
BTW- The people in focus groups probably have nothing better to do anyway, like drive to work in a car every day.
Yes, solenoid actuated valves would have benefits. The first attempts did not work well. The solenoids were not up to the rigorous demands of the environment. I heard some time back that they were experimenting again in F1 cars I believe. I suspect that it would be slightly more expensive to the automaker but the removal of parasitic drag, improved fuel efficiency and no periodic maintenance would outweigh the cost increase IMO.
Good point. A car is still a status builder and an image icon, unlike a refrigerator. A smart market researcher not only knows how to frame the questions, but he knows how to interpret the answers. Cars that totally bombed, like the Edsel, were somebody’s ego trip, not based on sound analysis. Often people have to be told what is good for them. If Iacocca had done regular market research for a minivan, he probably would not have built it.
Ford’s approach with the Mustang was to build a prototype and invite focus groups of potential buyers to view it. They thought it was a $7000 car (upscale T Bird) and showed little real interest. When Ford told them it would sell for $2695 base, suddenly everyone was interested
Some people, like Lee Iacocca and the late Dr. Land of Polaroid fame, did research, but instinctively knew what would sell. Such people are rare.
Way back in the 70s, a major airline was launching a new business class. I was on the focus group, as a frequent traveler, and the product they came out with was the best in North America, incuding the meals, seats, etc.
My son is an avid skier, and participates with the regional ski council focus groups regularly to improve their offerings.
There has to be one mastermind who guides product development, otherwise you end up with Edsels, Pontiac Azteks, etc. It’s been said that a camel is a horse designed by a committee!!
Oops! I should have said the front axle of a 4WD pickup truck! I don’t always clear speakly.
I’m curious, car or truck?
Sadly your list above reflects vehicles made 20 years ago (Blazers, Broncos for trucks and a variety of full size sedans (Crown Vics, Chevy Caprices) had the 2D option and V8 engines). Today it?s all about smaller, safer cars and car based SUVs with turbocharged 4s or efficient V6s, which makes sense for most car buyers today wanting a more personal car that is safe and fuel efficient while the larger vehicles are reserved for family transport and necessitate the 4D standard, but still, I really miss the 2D option on the larger vehicles and can?t find a newer vehicle that really interests me.
I?m really going to miss my 1990 manual 4 speed Blazer full size when the rust ultimately returns it to the earth. Sigh.
Man, this BBS is aggravating! Click on reply, not logged in, log in, back to first page, click on last, click on reply ARRGGH! But I digress…
I did not intend my lighthearted jab at car focus groups to be taken as a jab on all focus groups and I was glad to see you didn’t take offense.
You’re absolutely right about interpreting the data. We see this in action every day. Data must be intelligently mined for information. Another example of this is prevalent in health studies. Eat XYZ and you’re more likely to die of cancer. Nevermind that someone who prefers XYZ might also be inclined to do something else which compromises the immune system. Nope, direct correlation from XYZ to cancer!
I’ve compiled quite a few surveys for focus groups directed at the design of medical equipment. The framing of the question is very important and can easily be designed to yield a preferred answer. Sometimes this happens unconsciously so you have to be very careful and often repeat the same question in a different way to insure you get consistent answers.
I love that quote at the end!!
No the Vehicle I want is one you can spec like a truck or at least go to the dealer and add the options I want-around here you cant even go to dealer and get a spray in bedliner unless its a Nissan.
You use to be able to do that. Last time I was able to do that was when I bought my 84 S-15. And the reason they stopped doing that was because of COST. It’s far cheaper to build cars in sets. Pick and choose from a specific set of cars. Each set will be the base model + a specific set of features. The problem is that those set of options may NOT be the specific options you want.
If you want the car companies to let you custom order like they use…expect the car prices to jump a MINIMUM of 20%.
this is true-the best average-Kevin
Cost,cost-it is sad but true.Had to turn my head when I looked at a supercharged Frontier on top of all the options it had a $700-$800 hard to obtain fee tacked on-needless to say someone else owns it.I personally dont think 40 Hp is worth $10K plus dollars-Kevin
Give me real options!
Would you settle for timing belts or interference engines, never both? … And, for God’s sake, never, ever, for even ten seconds, consider driving the water pump in an interference engine from the timing belt?
So was the Mini-Van. Iacocca did the same research while President of Ford. CEO of Ford turned it down. So when Iacocca became President of Chryco…one of the first things he did was start up the Mini-Van project. Ford was playing catchup ever since.