Can we get back to something resembling “on point?” Or at least ecologically-oriented? The only ecological thing to say re: today’s politics is that we’ll need a Superfund grant to muck out all the B.S. remaining after the campaigns end.
I dont believe anything to be honest…I just thought it was interesting.
On Point? I dont even know where the Arrow went let alone where the point is !!!
OK…I will bow out at this juncture…I muddied this up but good… Sorry I wont clean up the mess however.
Peace…and dont believe everything you read or watch… A grain of salt goes a long way…Lol
Blackbird
Have to agree with MJ on the unintended heavy manufacturing consequences of running the best maintained and quality steel mills out of the country ,we end up suffering more pollution because of it.All this inevitably affects the cars we drive.
It’s not that simple. Labor cost were out of control. The United Steel Workers union was strong enough to win a lot of costly benefits. Not all at once, but over decades of contract renegotiations, they got exceptional pay, lots of paid time off, superb medical, and exceptionally favorable work rules. Upper management gave it to them because until the 1970s, there weren’t a lot of imports, especially low cost imports. Even in the 70s, import competition was primarily from Europe and Japan. I would not consider them low cost competition. Don’t bring up minimills. They can’t make sophisticated steel products unless they buy semi-finished products for their finishing mills. You just can’t make auto bodies or can stock from automobile scrap.
Well, I hope you’re right @Docnick and I’m wrong, I really do, but I don’t think so. I think the wars of the 21st century are going to make the ones of the 20th seem like a playground fistfight.
I think a big part of the problem is ALL the major religions encourage folks to have as many children as possible “be fruitful and multiply” in a world that is already seriously overpopulated. I suspect we’re going to deplete our dwindling resources and go into rapid decline, that is if war or some new superbug doesn’t do the job first.
Conservatives and Liberals argue whether “climate change” is a real thing and what can we do about it, I fear we may not last long enough to find out if its real . . . .
I’m sick and tired of hearing about North Korea on the news. We should have taken them out 20 years ago, but the political will is not there. Just like with Nazi Germany, the world wrings its hands and does nothing while they grow more powerful and dangerous by the day. If we’re not going to DO anything, stop telling me about it on the news already. That lunatic is going to have to actually start a nuclear war before there is any political will to stop him. Apparently nobody learned anything from Hitler. . .
I would LOVE to have a house with a hidden fallout shelter. Unfortunately where I live I could never put one in without all the neighborhood catching on, plus I doubt I could afford it. Buying a house that already has one is an excellent idea, if you can find one. . . I hear these days they’re built modular, like a car or a motorhome. They look like a big septic tank or fuel tank. They just dig a big hole in your yard and drop it in. But we’re on public sewer here, so my neighbors would know something strange is “up”. Besides the apocalyptic reasons, I’d just like to have a secret space, a secret room nobody knows about that I could hide stuff in.
I find that the least stressed people tend to be the ones who don’t follow politics and the news at all, or very minimally. The only reason I make it a point to vote is because of all the soldiers who have died over centuries so that I would have the right to do so. I feel it would be disrespectful of them for me to not vote. I wish I could get past this hang-up. Yeah, USUALLY one candidate is SO repulsive or corrupt I end up voting for the other one by default.
@meanjoe75fan , neat story about the tv’s. I had a similar problem with an old propane tank I needed to get rid of - nobody would take it. Can’t tell you what I ultimately did with it without incriminating myself, tho. . . I know a guy who, when he has something like that to throw away, goes to certain apartment complexes at 3 o’ clock in the morning and throws it in the community dumpster - better than chuckin’ it out the window on some deserted road anyway, I suppose. 
@“Ed Frugal”, my parents finished the area under our kitchen in their house. We opened the cinder lock wall, hauled dirt out the back door, and then my mother’s brother in law and his brother poured the concrete and finished the floor. I don’t believe you need a fallout shelter, but if you finish a sub-basement like a family room, you could get your bomb shelter and have a usable room, too. We moved into that house in 1961. The family across the street moved in.a year later and had a bomb shelter built under the basement. It wasn’t very large; barely big enough for their family to fit in. The father was a member of the Kennedy administration. Maybe I should have been unsettled by that. I was too young, though, and just thought it was cool.
ED FRUGAL…I cannot believe you are THAT politically incorrect in this day and age! You have the nerve to mention that we should not be “fruitful and multiply”…I am appalled… Just kidding…Actually I applaud you! Nobody says it…its not on the news…news papers, its nowhere.
People need to stop or at least SLOW all this breeding!!! I have always thought of our planet as a Ship at Sea… We have finite room and supplies…and FOOD (sorta)… I used to find that TV show about the family with like 18 children offensive…not many understood why I felt this way or why I looked at the TV shaking my head or saying rude things.
This stuff is real, everyone should NOT have 4 kids…its irresponsible at best…but people these days have the " I GOTS MINEZ" attitude…and it is widespread. I consider myself a considerate individual. I can tell you will serious conviction that if we were on a life raft or Ship at Sea and Stupid Carl started multiplying with the Wifey…I promise Carl and the Wifey would be starving soon because he is not welcome to my rations. But being who I am I would probably wind up sharing my food with his family cause I would feel bad…(Sad I know) but you get the idea.
China was onto something with the 1 Child generation…nobody wanted to say that was a good idea…or even mention it really. But seriously… I could see a 2 child limit being not so terrible to live with? I mean…nothing goes right when you have 3 kids and a middle child is generated so most people have a 4th or something… Its nuts…it needs to stop. Tell Carl to go for a swim…
Blackbird
Whoooo Weeeee we are sailing the High Seas of The Off Topic Express at Car Talk. Did you expect anything less?
Hi, could you please bring this back? Looked like it came towards cars briefly, but I’m not sure it’s going to stay that way. Thanks.
Sorry - - I know I’m one that tends to wander off-topic, but this is a pretty thoughtful group of regulars here. Its hard to find a place, either online or in person, where one can read and participate in a thought provoking discussion without it devolving into the old, “. . . I know you are but what am I? I know you are but what am I? IknowyouarebutwhatamI?”
@jtsanders
There were a lot of reasons for the collapse of steel in and around Pittsburgh. The high wages the unions won. Ownership’s decision not to modernize mills during the profitable 50’s and 60’s. Environmental laws. Lack of vision to see that overseas competition was a threat. The inroads of imported vehicles (which were helped along by the oil crises). A executive branch that was unsympathetic to labor in the 80s. The encouragement by the government for excess capacity, in the 50/60/70s, for strategic reasons, followed by a swift change in that policy around the end of Vietnam.
Funny how the decisions people or corporations make when things are going well…Barely resemble the thought process when things are out of control or in a downward slide. The Auto Industry is perhaps the biggest example of this…for the above reasons you guys mentioned. Complacency, Greed, Denial, Pride, Denial…and Denial…Did I mention Denial ? I dont mean De River either. The Auto Industry was massively guilty of all of these things.
I’ve honestly lost the main topic of this thread so dont look to me to bring it back in line…Im useless thata way
Blackbird
Ownership's decision not to modernize mills during the profitable 50's and 60's
We had steel mills close in NY also. I’m usually pro union…but in this case…the UNIONS prevented the owners to modernize. Modernization meant fewer jobs. When steel mills started going under the unions begged to have them modernize to save what jobs they had left…but it was too late.
A good example of when two entities are intertwined and “Fat n Happy”… Not anymore however…
@HondaBlackbird I believe the expression is “dumb, fat & happy”.
General Motors once had 50% of the car market, kept giving in to union demands, did little or nothing to improve quality and durability, kept cheapening things at the expense of durability, and made fun of those “little imports”.
Even when an engineering team went to Toyota in Japan and toured their plants they came back that Toyota had "very little to offer, except for cup holders in their cars’. They completely missed the production efficiencies, and the thorough durability testing of the components. Toyota’s path was the exact opposite of GM’s. A generation earlier, the German and Swiss camera industry went through the same process.
In short, stylists, bean counters, company yes men, and unions can’t properly run a car company.
General Motors once had 50% of the car market, kept giving in to union demands, did little or nothing to improve quality and durability, kept cheapening things at the expense of durability, and made fun of those "little imports".
Don’t blame the unions on that one. That was 99% MANAGEMENT. GM stopped being a car company and became a finance company. They found it more profitable to sell financing then building better vehicles. I’ve had several relatives working in the auto industry at Chrysler and GM - from line workers to foremen to plant managers.
I worked at a large integrated steel mill near Baltimore that was modernized, yet it was still shut down eventually.
“GM stopped being a car company and became a finance company. They found it more profitable to sell financing then building better vehicles.”
That is the same path that General Electric went down, with similarly bad results.
After several years of making crappy appliances (with the exception of their ranges), their CEO, “Chainsaw Jack Welch”, decided to become the source of financing for people who wanted to buy those appliances on credit. That “banking” gambit didn’t produce very much profit–even after more than a decade–and just this year GE finally decided to jettison most of their finance-related operations, as well as their appliance division.
Under CEO Jeffrey Immelt, GE is morphing into a software company (for the “Internet of Things”), in addition to making jet engines, generators, and other industrial equipment. Immelt seems to be turning the company around, which Welch was unable to do. Welch’s approach was to keep laying-off people in order to save money on many badly-thought-out operations, but all he did was to run the company–as well as a lot of people–into the ground.
MikeInNH
"GM stopped being a car company and became a finance company."
Mike, You are certainly entitled to your opinions. I have some of the greatest non-cars in my family fleet and plan to buy more non-cars in the future from a company that went out of the car business. 
CSA
Mike, You are certainly entitled to your opinions. I have some of the greatest non-cars in my family fleet and plan to buy more non-cars in the future from a company that went out of the car business.
Since as you stated several times here you can’t even buy a Toyota or Honda because there isn’t a dealer near you. So you have nothing to compare the quality of your GM vehicles to. Me and people like MtnBike have owned many GM vehicles and Toyota and Honda. There’s no question what vehicles I’ve owned and many others like me which vehicles have been more reliable. If all you can buy is GM,Ford or Chryco…then you’ll never know how good other companies can be. So your comparison on quality is meaningless.