It's not just VW


#1

…that has been caught red-handed with…cheating…on diesel emissions. The latest revelations have to do with Renault.
While Renaults are not sold in The US, this makes me wonder about Nissan diesels, simply because Nissan and Renault are…married…and they share much of their technology:


#2

If they dig deep enough…there will be other vehicle manufactuers caught up in this mess. I’m sure of it.


#3

So, the consensus is that an acceptable diesel engine cannot be produced that will pass the emission standards? By acceptable I mean an engine that is light, efficient, powerful, flexible, driveable, and clean enough for automotive application.


#4

An inevitable consequence of unrealistic expectations, combined with a mandated prohibition on applying cost/benefit analysis. (Yup, it’s ILLEGAL to try and determine “bang-to-buck-ratio” WRT the Clean Air Act.


Pass silly laws, win silly prizes.


#5

^
So…it’s okay for a company to attempt to deceive both the public and several governmental entities on at least two continents?

How about a corporate board deciding that their company can’t meet whatever standards have been imposed, lobbying in a fact-based manner for relief from those standards, and–in the meantime–just carrying on in an ethical manner while simultaneously making the public aware that potentially unrealistic demands are being made of them?

Would that be too much to ask?


#6

As More And More Regulations Take Our Freedom You’ll See More And More Law Breakers.

I’ve heard that there are so many regulations, Federal, State, and Local, that all of us are breaking some kind of law at any given time, although we may net even be aware of it.

As restrictions increase and some of them seem totally unfair, impossible to comply with, or unconstitutional (government breaking the law), then people feel justified trying to circumvent them.

Individuals and businesses are strangling in red tape.
CSA


#7

The DEA/urea diesels seems to do fine, just cost a bit more. No excuse for VW.


#8
Individuals and businesses are strangling in red tape..

Businesses - yes…Individuals - not so much.

When it comes to clean air and water…TOUGH. I don’t know about you, but I like drinking clean water and breathing clean air.

And we now have another water supply with extremely high lead counts…And it turned out they were falsifying the documents. But I guess they were regulated TOO much. Lets NOT regulate it…let’s just let them do whatever they want to whoever they want…because it’s cheaper.


#9
we now have another water supply with extremely high lead counts

Both Flint and Sebring, Ohio were government entities, not private business nor individuals. Pretty bad when your public companies violate r the regs, too. Too bad you can’t sue the government, unless the government says you can. Wonder what they will decide?

I don’t like lead in my water or soot in my air either but there are enough bad actors to go around.


#10

Simple case of greed on VW’s part. They didn’t want to pay Mercedes for the AdBlue technology, so they did without. Had to add the cheat code to “pass” the test. No excess regulations.


#11

Yeah I agree with Meanjoe and CSA. I highly suspect the folks coming up with these regulations are not private transportation or business supporters and likely take the Metro to the Beltway every day. Nothing against the Metro but its quite a different world in South Dakota than DC.


#12

I think meanjoe and CSA have described the root of the problem beautifully. Add Bing’s suspicion about the folks coming up with these regulations and the description of the problem is almost complete.

I would add that regulatory agencies being run by cabinet officials, regulatory agencies being the method by which the executive branch enforces laws as is their mandate in the Constitution, and the fact that regulatory agencies routinely exceed their mandates under the laws they were created to enforce (reference the court case about the EPA regulating CO2, which isn’t covered in the Clean Air and Water Acts), and I believe we basically have regulatory agencies responding to an executive branch that’s pandering to special interest groups. And unless a mandate affects a group with a powerful lobby capable of controlling a huge voting block or making huge contributions to a campaign, the impacts of the mandates are largely ignored.


#13
I don't like lead in my water or soot in my air either but there are enough bad actors to go around.

So what…that means because there are too many actors…we should just STOP.

Yes they were government entities…but they were LOCAL entities that were being FORCED to follow Federal Standards (which they didn’t). And any regulation like this needs to be monitored…which it clearly wasn’t.

And do you think it would be any better if it was a private company…based on this thread…I don’t think so. Is the answer LESS regulation as some people think…I agree that air quality and for the most part water quality has improved since the 60’s…but it’s not even close to where it could/should be. And I know for a fact most companies will NOT sacrifice even a .0001% in profit to pollute less.


#14

Many government entities violate air and water standards. Some get caught, some don’t, and others BS and red tape their way with finger pointing.

Many of them do far worse things than VW has done and in my opinion it’s even worse because those are the people that are supposed to be on the straight and narrow while on the taxpayer dime.


#15

Well Flint is an interesting case of errors and failure to keep the infra-structure updated. Due to what? Business moving out and half the population with it and the poor left behind with no money. The town has old water lines. They were being gouged by another city water supply so decided to split from Detroit water works. But Detroit pulled the plug like a little kid two years before a pipeline could be built. So Flint pulls water from the river that corrodes the pipes to reveal the lead that was previously sealed from the crud. Could have been avoided had they treated the water but the appointed manager said no.

So like everything else you can blame a number of people or events that turned into a perfect storm.


#16

Our regulatory system is far from perfect (none is). But does anyone have a better alternative?


#17
Well Flint is an interesting case of errors and failure to keep the infra-structure updated.

If you think that’s the main problem in Flint you haven’t been keeping up with it.

The FACT that state denied there was a problem…and even went out of their way to discredit anyone who said there was a problem…that’s what the main problem is.

Flint REFUSED to use corrosion control methods for their water system.
They didn’t test properly (as required by law).

You can debate as to WHY this happened. Was it because these were poor families…and the state didn’t want to fund the proper procedures? We’ll never know the answer to that. All we know is it did happen.

I wonder how many other public and private drinking water systems are as bad.


#18

Seems like it’s not just Flint…

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/millions-of-americans-may-be-drinking-poisoned-water/ar-BBoJx9i?li=BBnb7Kz


#19

“I’ve heard that there are so many regulations, Federal, State, and Local, that all of us are breaking some kind of law at any given time, although we may net even be aware of it.”

I’ll give you another example: There are so many laws that law enforcement can’t keep up with them. I was ticketed for turning left on a one way street from a one way street when the light was red. The rookie cop insisted it was illegal but I knew better. I took a copy of the law down to see the judge and he tossed the ticket. I wasted time and energy and a little money just to prove that I was right but should not have had to do it in the first place.


#20
There are so many laws that law enforcement can't keep up with them. I was ticketed for turning left on a one way street from a one way street when the light was red

Ignorance of the law is no excuse…“Except if you’re a cop”.