Whitey. If it was the shipper it is still within the Toyota chain of operation!
Well run corporations make sure quality is good through out their franchises and/or dealerships. If they don’t then the brand suffers if and/or when the quality starts degenerating past a certain point. Just ask GM, Chrysler, or Ford I’m sure there are probably some dealerships that no longer exist because they did underhanded stuff and the car maker closed the dealership.
My contention is that Toyota should rectify the situation. There was damage to this vehicle before it was sold as new. It could have been at the factory. It could have been while shipping the vehicle to the first dealer. It could have been as it was being driven to the dealer whom we bought it from. It could have happened at the dealership while it was sitting in inventory.
Regardless. There was damage done to the vehicle. It wasn’t repaired in the skilled craftsman way that a body shop repairs damages of this sort. Since it wasn’t it should have been disclosed to us the buyers before we purchased the vehicle.
Toyota should step in and correct the problem because the repairs weren’t done correctly the first time. They can then settle up with whom they think did the poor work. Remember car dealers can examine cars when they receive them. If there is a problem with them I’ll bet dollars to pennies they will be on the phone to the factory if that is where they came from to get the situation rectified. If it is a case of the cars being damaged in transit the dealership will be talking to someone to get reimbursed for fixing the problem.
The damage was not fixed in a normal skilled craftsman way. They didn’t repaint the whole panel. They just spot touched the problem areas.
I’m sorry to hear that. I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t something they could examine on the spot. But wheels and lug nuts. They should have been easily been able to look at those to determine they were fine and then given your refund.
Apparently Toyota thinks they are so successful that they don’t have to pay attention to consumers. I used to think very highly of them. That is the only reason our last two car purchases have been Toyota. With the exception of a used Volvo once, we always purchased American cars until the quality got to be so bad.
Thinking about this a little further regarding not giving you the cash right away and from my years as an accountant. Most businesses now days open up the days operations with very little cash on hand. So that might explain why no caah refund that particular day. But requiring you bank account number when sending you a check for a refund that sounds almost abusive.
I agree that this is a tough pill to swallow, but you have to move on. I agree with the posters who said bring to a paint shop/detailer and see what they can do.
You have to get over it, because right or wrong, at this point there isn’t anything that can be done. The fact that it has never been properly waxed ever certainly hasn’t helped . I understand that the rest of the car looks great, but a good waxing a couple times of year could have possibly prevented what’s happened. I believe the owners manual probably mentions waxing to preserve the finish as mine does. Again, I TOTALLY understand where your coming from, but unless it can be proven the car was repainted, there is no recourse. You could have 100 body shops tell you it’s been repainted, but that’s not proof, and not one of those 100 shop could prove it’s been repainted.
A grease pencil may write on top of bee’s wax candle wax. Use bee’s wax= non soot burning wax … it’s cleaner, harder. Don’t use a grease pencil right on the paint. It’s too hard to get off. If you use the pastels on top of wax you might be able to press the pastels into the wax with a rubber … ink roller or caulking/plaster roller… I do not know the official term, but they are at Home Depot. They are soft and narrow enough for you to follow your writing curvature.
Re: nuts…
They did examine the nuts. They knew that I had never installed them. They had enough money. They just refused to take part of the money out of each of two registers to make the total. They keep “dropping” money into their safe to deliberately not keep more than a hundred dollars in their registers.
Re: Bank Number…
I meant that by having to deposit and cash a check I would be giving them a returned check that would have not only my name and address(given to them at the store) on it, but the bank would then write my driver’s license on it and stamp my bank account number on the returning check to them as well. That irritates me to no end! It is an invasion of privacy.
I know what you are referring to as the roller. The term I’ve seen used for them is “brayer.” As a matter of fact I think I have one laying in my drawer of miscellaneous stuff.
My wife will be very glad to hear about you suggesting not to use a grease pencil on the paint. That was initially what came to mind … well until she rolled her eyes and said, “hmmmm … don’t know if that is such a good idea.”
Thank you for taking the time to come back and give that additional information.
Rockstar07 you said, “You could have 100 body shops tell you it’s been repainted, but that’s not proof, and not one of those 100 shop could prove it’s been repainted.”
I don’t think that is accurate. I’m not an attorney, but I sure have watched a lot of courtroom shows on television along with sitting through many business law classes while in college. There are entities called “expert witnesses.” Folks that can document that they have been in the business for many years probably would have no problems being accepted by the court as expert witnesses.
Regarding nothing can be done. I still haven’t heard from the dealership where I purchased it from management.
I can however educate other folks about this experience. Some will be swayed into not purchasing a Toyota. So in a sense something will be done if it gets to that point. But if you read through the thread I posted a comment about cost to Toyota. What they do is what they do. However what I choose to do is what I choose to do as well.
Will it resolve in the manner I want. Hopefully. But several posters on this website concur with you that Toyota won’t do anything. I still have some confidence in the name that this will be corrected. If I didn’t I would be probably planning on making a sign on our Sienna tomorrow.
I’m still holding out hope that somewhere in the Toyota chain someone will realize this was wrong. They were known for having such a good product and service. That is why we shifted to Toyota after years of purchasing American with the exception of one used foreign car.
Hadn’t considered poster paint. Interesting. I would definitely want to hand wax the area where I was planning on painting the sign should I go that route. Hmmm… have consistently missed reading your post for several hours somehow.
Jim, suppose you take the time to go to court with this, and also assume you can get a paint expert to go with you (more $$$) and testify that it was painted. Then what? Whose is responsible for the re-paint prior the delivery?
I don’t think you’re going to sway too many people away from Toyota. ALL manufactures routinely turn down claims, even if they’re valid. I know your situation stinks, but I’m sure there are areas your time can be better spent.
No, I would take it to small claims court and have letters from a few body shops. Things are pretty informal in small claims court. When I win. There will be an amount awarded. I would take that amount and go to a body shop outside of Toyota franchise since I can’t trust them since I had to go to court. In this area the body shops warranty their work for the lifetime of the current owner or as long as the current owner owns the vehicle. Little post posting edit here. I’m not sure what I would do if the court didn’t award the full cost of correcting this problem. The vehicle is not brand new and the court may depreciate the repair. But I don’t know. I’m not an attorney but that is a possibility.
I am holding hope that in the next week or so someone within the Toyota chain of operation will realize the error of the way this repair was handled and make the issue right. Toyota has spent a lot of money and energy to develop the good image that they have.
Your absolutely right about not swaying to many people away from Toyota. All I can do is talk about it and educate folks about this practice. Some maybe most won’t listen. Other folks will hear and consider and decide they would rather do business with an entity that they feel they can trust.
Regarding my time. Actually I was worked and was awarded an Eagle Scout award. In addition spent nine years in parochial schools. You know where one of the key tenents like “do a good deed daily” and “love your neighbor as yourself.” I would have loved for someone to have told me about the possibility of this happening before I bought the vehicle. I would have taken a totally different tack. When it comes time to replace our other Toyota. Well you can bet and count on putting it in the bank that I will ask questions relating to the finish on the next car.
I would venture to say that there are 10’s of thousands or 100’s of thousands if not millions of people that expect a good paint job on vehicle when they purchase it new. This is not a case of ‘caveat emptor.’
I thank you for taking the time to respond again and also post your concern about my time usage.
When you get the ding repaired pay a bit more and get your “spots” repainted too. Any body shop repair will not last as long as the original factory paint. They guarantee “for the life of the car” and hope most people sell, trade, or crash it before the body shop paint shows as inferior to the original paint.
How did your Sienna get those original spots? Hard to tell. You say it was Toyota, and they’ll say anything could have happened to the car after you drove it home. My daughter’s son help wash her new car. While unsupervised (her fault) the boy decided to mix mud into the sponge and essentially scratched a good patch of paint. Your car could have been vandalized on holloween, noone knows? You are on a vendetta and if this helps you spend the day, then enjoy your hate Toyota rants. Buy whatever markers you want, put them on wash them off. Enjoy yourself.
Stuff happens to cars. I’ve got a chipped windshield and little dimples from the acorns that fall in my driveway. Your 2004 Sienna is now 6 years old and is bound to take some hits. Let this go, it will help you blood pressure and mental health. Have the car professionally waxed, have a body shop fix the spots, trade it in. Just do something positive and move on.
My wifes 2004 Civic has had similar spots on the hood since around 2006. Her car is black so its highly noticeable, I was waxing it once before winter and once before summer. We bought the car new and there is no way the hood was damaged that I can tell. I think the spots were caused by bird poop, and the car being outside in the dew. I would pay to have the van detailed and not worry about it.
You could own a 2005 Caravan that has rust starting under the lips of all of the doors and tailgate/hood. Do some research on that and you will feel better. We looked at a 2007 caravan that had bad rust starting on the lips, its a known defect on them.
Ding is on other side of the vehicle. To have “spots” repaired cost as stated earlier $2500 to $2700 maybe? Hopefully someone in the Toyota chain will come around soon.
But … think about this. When folks give up and let stuff like this pass. Then the manufacturer gets positive reinforcement to continue the practice. This continues the behavior. Even emboldens them more. More consumers get burned.
If consumers had revolted more to the poor quality of American car manufacturers sooner by sending letters of complaint, fighting poor standards. Do you think that the American car manufacturers would have gotten so bad and lost so much?
I thank you though for taking the time to respond.
No I wouldn’t feel better looking at 2005 Caravans problems. Before we decided on this vehicle we had done a lot of research on makes and models of vehicles. Consumer Reports magazine, various online sources. It was apparent that Caravans and well all the American car manufacturers were still having Huge quality issues.
I’m not an attorney, but I sure have watched a lot of courtroom shows on television…
Jim, that is priceless. That has got to be one of the funniest things I have read in this forum in a long time.
My experience in small claims court suggests that you might win, but you will probably be awarded some small token amount like $100. I am not an attorney either, but I have represented a company I worked for in small claims court. The main problem I see is even with your expert witnesses, how do you prove it was Toyota’s fault? Even if you can prove shoddy repair work was done, you would still have to prove where and when it happened, which you don’t seem to know. Proving that the shoddy work was done isn’t going to be enough. The absence if evidence that it happened under your care isn’t going to be enough.
Whitey. If it was the shipper it is still within the Toyota chain of operation!
Not necessarily. Have you researched this or are you assuming this?
I believe most cars are shipped FOB (freight on board) consignee, rather than FOB shipper. That means that as soon as the freight is loaded, it becomes the consignee’s responsibility. If the vehicle was shipped FOB consignee, the dealership was responsible for repairing the damage that happened during shipping.
Very valid points. Could get down to he said, he said type of thing. Philosophers have long said that it’s impossible to prove a negative. I can present evidence that it was a Dealer Trade. I can present evidence of the care I’ve given the vehicle. I can state under oath that the vehicle has sustained no damage under my ownership with the except of the minor chipping until the minor ding a couple of weeks ago. Since I bought the vehicle “new.” Then it was something that happened within the Toyota chain of operations.