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Follow-up: what happened with Toyota

A few days ago I posted a question about what to use to make a temporary mark on a paint job that had issues. The title of the thread is, “Is there a way to mark on vehicle paint job and not be permanent” Folks wanted to know what happened.



I went over and talked to the General Manager of the Dealership that I purchased the vehicle from. He brought out some type of gauge that measures paint depth. (I’m a guy who accepts science) He measured the paint depth in various spots and the paint was amazingly consistent. So the body shop guys that said it was repairs of prior damage were wrong. I wasn’t expecting that at all.



The General Manager stated that they would make things look right should I have repair work from the ding repaired there.



I went back to the body shop. Body shop manager knew that I was one real … let’s say discerning (very positive adjective) guy. I told him I was particularly concerned about seeing examples of paint matching in repairs they had done of a vehicle several years old. He took me to a part of the body shopped and showed me a vehicle they were working on and what they were going to be doing with it. Then invited me back in a couple of days when it was finished. All I have to say is if they say what they are going to do and it comes out looking like they say it is. I will be very very impressed.



Lots of folks in the previous thread had a very low opinion of how I treated the car’s exterior. That is a wash about once a month and hot wax about every three months. We have never had a problem with clear coats one of the vehicles that is currently sitting outside is one that has had that treatment since 1993. HOWEVER when I was talking about details of lifetime warranty on repair. It mentioned negligence. I told the body shop manager what I did and asked him if that was sufficient. He told me that treatment worked fine. But now they have shifted to water based products. That are affected much more by acid in the atmosphere. That no-touch spray washes he strongly recommends as opposed to brushes. But that no-touch also needs stronger chemicals because there is no rubbing. The chemicals do a pretty good job of eliminating remaining hot wax. He recommended a good hand wax job twice a year. Should state that my location is in southern Indiana.



I’ll be calling to make an appointment for the vehicle at the body shop tomorrow. After checking calendars with my wife.



My faith in Toyota has been restored.

As has ours. You have a uniquely good dealer there.

Thanks for posting the follow up. We so often hear.

We meant no offense in questioning your maintenance, but we so often have posts by people who’ve caused their own problems and then want the dealers to fix the damage years after the warranty has ended. Yours sounded like one, at least to me. No offense was meant, we were just trying to get to the root of the problem.

Let us know how it turns out. We care.

You don’t mention who is paying for the work.

I’m glad you feel a resolution is at hand. When they repair the “ding” after the prep work they load up the paint gun(s) and paint it with color. When that is dry and prepped then they spray on clear coat.

It will be easy to prep the “spots” and then paint them at the same time the dinged area is painted. The dealer’s expenses will be a bit more labor and bit more materials but not that much. So, you get a nice looking Sienna again and the dealer isn’t out much either. A classic “win - win”.

Now in 5 years the repainted areas may look wonderful and they may not. How long these repainting jobs hold up has a lot to do with the skill of the guys doing the painting, the quality of shop envoirnment, and sometimes even the weather conditions at the time the paint is applied. Painting cars is an area the manufacturers have invested lots of money into and robots give the most consistant results. Still factory paint jobs aren’t perfect, and body shop paint work quality varies greatly from shop to shop.

Like oldschool, I’m also wondering who is paying for this.

Let’s not leave any false impressions here. These are ‘dull’ marks in the paint exterior. Based on what I learned that these marks are not consistent with poorly made repairs. Not expecting them to repaint the panels that they are on. With the reading on the paint gauge that was inconsistent with the body shops’ & insurance appraiser’s hypothesis. I don’t expect them to be repainting on these areas which by the way are on the opposite side of the ding. As a matter of fact I’m glad this issue is raised because I don’t even want them wet sanding and then using rubbing compound on these areas to get a shine back. I would prefer to keep as much protection as possible. If necessary I will decline their offer if it involved any abrasive technique I’ll just keep hand waxing until a shine would come up. Hopefully a shine would come up.

There was a ‘dull’ spot on the opposite side of the vehicle from the other dull spots, where the ding is. The body shop manager on the day I initially took it in which was just a couple hours after the appraiser had told me these ‘dull’ spots were prior damage, had applied some clear liquid to the vehicle (at which point I started having kittens), telling him I didn’t want him doing anything to the vehicle without witnesses there and then followed up with some white type liquid that had a 3M label on it. At which point I was really chewing his tail out. It made that dull spot almost vanish. So I fully expect that that treatment what ever it was is what they will end up using.

I don’t have a clue what that white fluid was. But fully expect that the treatment won’t last unless it gets a good coat of “hand” wax. Please everyone note I said “hand” wax. Regardless of what you thought in the last thread. I gave serious and careful consideration to everything that was being said.

Want to make clear that my attitude flipped 180 degrees when I was shown that these ‘dull’ spots were not a case of prior damage being repaired and having been done incorrectly. Suddenly this was not a case of someone in the Toyota chain acting unethically. That gauge made it possible for me to trust what was being said. Let there be no ifs, ands, or buts, about it. I can be the largest and most painful pain in the rear. But I have a tendency towards reasonableness.

So the GM said they would take care of the side with the ‘dull’ marks. Which in consideration of this new information is very nice of them. However great question to confirm who is paying. I will re-verify with the body shop in the morning when I make the appointment. Speculation that the GM made was that these ‘dull’ marks were some type of rub marks. Don’t have a clue about where the rub would have come from. This vehicle is driven so rarely and sits 99% of it’s life parked in our driveway. And realizing I need as much exercise as possible. I park far away from entrances to stores and such and consequently from other vehicles as well. I assume they will be using some combination of whatever it was that they used that one day. But it took very little time. Naturally regarding the ding. Well the insurance company will be taking care of that.

Fair questions that have been asked. Good thoughts as well. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Have a Great Day,
Jim

Yimmie, if you were asked what time it was would you explain how to make a watch?

No, I couldn’t. Reason being I don’t have a clue how they work. I know there are two basic types of watches and then there are off shoots of those. What I grew up with were mechanical watches. I believe the primary workings are based on a mainspring. How a mainspring works I don’t have the slightest idea. But in thinking about it. Whoever developed the concept of it was a genius in my humble but vociferous opinion. I mean here is a mechanical storage of energy. So when it is fully wound it has an incredible amount of energy stored and ready to release. But somehow that energy is governed by some action that takes that energy at the peak and energy at a much lower period and moves things at a consistent pace. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. On top of it the size of the gearing is so small. It would seem impossible to make without mangling the gears. Then when you add in the fact that they can actually make these things in such a manner that they can be affordable to most consumers. Well that is just magnificent.

Then you add in the fact that they take these remarkable engineering feats and were able to develop a self winder for them. Based on movement of a wrist which doesn’t have to be huge. Then on top of that pack it in such a very small package. This is phenomenal.

Now the other type of watch that I am aware of is the quartz type. This is mind numbing. Quartz is apparently a very hard rock. Not quite as hard as a diamond but I have heard that it is very hard. I’ve not read that much about the Rockwell scale. But apparently it rates the hardness of various items in comparison to other items and does it very well. Anyhow the manufacturers take a piece of this rock and shape/conform it to some standard that is very small. How do you make something that is very hard into a precision measured piece is such quantities to make it affordable?

Anyhow apparently with the application of electricity it causes these little tiny pieces of rock to vibrate at 10’s of thousands of vibrations per second. Per second. Can you imagine that? I can’t. Now if that wasn’t enough. They somehow capture those vibrations to move the hands. How the heck to they do that? That is mind blowing. I mean if you had a gear doing that you would need 10’s of thousands of teeth on it to manage just one second. Much less minutes and hours. They put these clockworks in with a battery. True the batteries are small. But they still take up room and manage to put them in packages that look dainty on a small women’s wrist.

Then I forgot all about digital watches in my consideration of types of watches. Those little pieces of crystal made from sand. They wire things up and you have a digital display. Sometimes they throw in this wonderful component called an LED and they light up. Egads man. You have to appreciate the wonderment of this technology.

I’ve seen these watches advertised termed ‘kinetic’ and I don’t have a clue what that means. But a technology beyond that.

Adding as an addition after the initial post, don’t want to take credit for having all the thoughts just right off the top of my head. Anyhow, apparently they now have atomic watches. Naturally they don’t have atomic reactors built into them. That would be just so over the top between cooling liquids and control rods made out of what? Graphite I think. But in addition you would need a steam engine and those are … well I’ve never seen one close to being able to fit into a watch case. Although that brings to mind. I wonder if they considered using a Stirling engine in conjunction with a low level nuclear source providing heat. Although Stirling engines have some size to them. But they could probably be made smaller. I doubt seriously they would have near the torque that a steam engine has. But don’t think much torque would be needed to drive a watch. Although there is the fact that it would need to power a generator and those require torque.

But I digress. Back to atomic watches. The title atomic is actually a misnomer. It means it receives a radio signal from a clock which keeps time using some sort of nuclear count I believe. But once again that is way over my head. But getting back to the atomic watches. These things are still tremendously small. But in addition to all the electrical and quartz stuff they have built in them. They also have a radio receiver that is quite powerful. On top of that they can move analog (manual) hands to correct the time. Just think of the wonderment of that technology. It’s absolutely incredible.

oldschool if you don’t like the way I respond why do you bother reading my post? I assume your question was a tongue in cheek put down for can’t I make a shorter response. Yes, I can. But I think there are a lot of lurkers on this website. I know that I lurk. The longer response gives summary of what has happened and bring folks who are just reading for the first time, some idea of what is happening and has happened.

But oldschool you should really take good care of yourself and avoid reading any thread that I start.
Jim

Just a side question and sorry if it has been covered, I haven’t read all the post of the 3 threads.
Does the wax option of the drive through car wash even count as a wax?

Up to you to judge. We’ve had several vehicles since 1993 and currently the '93 is still sitting outside as it always has. Maintenance regime car wash once a month, hot wax about 4 times a year. Clear coat has always looked good and still does. Our location is south central Indiana. By the way the vehicle gets no shade.

Was told today that no-touch washes use more powerful chemicals that wash the hot wax off the next time the vehicle gets washed. Wish I had thought to ask if hot wax with every wash would suffice for water based finishes.

Anyhow in addition. Apparently the water based processes used now are more susceptible to damages from acid found in atmosphere. Suggestion is for twice a year hand wax with something that has carnuba wax.

Have a Great Day,
Jim

Yumpin Yimminie, I Swear I’ve Read As Much Of This Discussion As My Time Allows But Still Don’t See The Answer To Ok4450’s And Old School’s Question.

Briefly, who’s paying for the restoration/painting work/materials of the areas in question?

CSA

Up to you to judge. We’ve had several vehicles since 1993 and currently the '93 is still sitting outside as it always has. Maintenance regime car wash once a month, hot wax about 4 times a year. Clear coat has always looked good and still does. Our location is south central Indiana. By the way the vehicle gets no shade.

That does NOT mean the wax holds up. All it means is the PAINT is holding up well in those conditions. I’ve used the spray-on wax on my vehicles…they last days NOT months. A good hand wax will last a few months. Unfortunetly here in NH…there’ll be a 5 month period where it’s too cold for a hand wax so my only option is the spray-on wax…within a few days it’s gone.

Here’s my guess. If OP agreed to have Toyota dealer body shop repair the “ding” then the ding is being paid for by insurance less his deductable. The rest of the work is being done by Toyota dealer with no additional charges to OP. If there is no insurance claim then OP is paying for ding repair, Toyota is repairing the “spots” at no additional charge.

Once you add to the equation that we are talking about a white vehicle in a mild climate, is even more likely it was the clear coat withstanding the elements on the OP’s vehicle, not the spray-on wax.

It’s quite amazing, actually. The OP was so sure the spots were caused by an inferior repair. He insisted several times that it could not possibly be anything else. Then the general manager brings out some fancy device and starts talking technical, and low and behold, Yumpin Yimminie is finally willing to consider other possibilities. I bet you the body shop simply washes the spots, adds a layer of clear coat, and waxes it, all for the cost a $6.99 can of spray-on clear coat. Yumpin Yimminie will never know the difference.

I’m so far from being an expert on body finishes and waxes. All I can say is that from 1993 we have had 4 new vehicles that have had the same treatment and stood up that same way. So …

CSA you wrote, “Yumpin Yimminie, I Swear I’ve Read As Much Of This Discussion As My Time Allows But Still Don’t See The Answer To Ok4450’s And Old School’s Question.”

CSA you also wrote: "Briefly, who’s paying for the restoration/painting work/materials of the areas in question? "

See my response to this thread made 08/18/2009 10:05:07 PM

Jim

He does not know who will be paying.

Yimmie,thats not the way it works here,anyone can respond to any thread as long as the language used is appropriate. On the CarTalk Forum we are allowed to question and probe peoples posts,we are not censored in that way.

Yumpin Yimminie, I Guess If I Were To Condense Down What You Are Saying, The Answer Is That You Don’t Know. Is That Correct?

Also, it appears that you’ll let us know tomorrow, Is that correct?

Thank You,
CSA

Wow this is pretty interesting. My post are disappearing right after I make them. The posts that have disappeared are ones where I respond back to insults by other posters. I had thought these forums were a direct off shoot of the show “Click & Clack.” But apparently there are moderators who are censoring the folks who don’t give much advice and don’t believe in taking guff from long time poster.