Hydraulic Pump Noise -- 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid

pump
noises

#1

I am a single woman and the sole owner of a 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid 4WD. All was well until about 60,000 miles. At this time the hydraulic pump for the regenerative brakes (I know it is the pump as the change in sound is heard when unlocking the car, and before the engine is turned on) began to sound different – kind of fluttery, not smooth like before. It may be louder as well. I went to the dealership and they didn’t even know there should be a sound before the engine is turned on! I had to show them the page out of the manual – which they copied. They kept the car and pulled another one off the lot and listened to the sound of the pump on both. They emailed Ford engineering and were told that these pumps “sometimes get louder the older the car is” and recommended that the pump be replaced at the amazing price of $4100! (They charged me $174.00 for “diagnostics”!) I was shocked. I am now trying to find out what the problem is with the pump and if it is indeed $4100 to fix. I am still paying on the car and have 24 more months of $675.31 a month to pay. I don’t know what to do. I need a reliable car as I commute. I am even looking into getting another car (NOT a Ford!), but with this problem I cannot even ethically sell the car, and will get practically nothing as a trade in. Can you help me?


#2

Number 1 , do not be blaming Ford. Do not talk yourself out of another Ford. Ford isn’t the issue here, it’s the hybrid systems that change the reletive pricing of service. Same for Toyota and Honda, the hybrids are different.

Number 2, In the five year span of hybrid Escapes, my Ford dealer has never encountered a noisy hydraulic pump. My two hybrid certified techs know no ‘quiet down’ procedures except to replace it. There are no internal pieces sold to repair it. My own wife’s 06 Escape hybrid has been trouble free for it’s 27,000 miles.

Number 3, The price of that unit should be negotiable with the dealer albeit a high priced part. But it sounds like that dealer is not too hybrid savvy cuz they didn’t even know how these things have a mind of their own, as you noted, just unlocking it begins operational noises. Is this your regular dealer ? Is there a better dealer somewhere to offer a second opinion ? Ford dealers must have a hybrid specific trained and certified tech on staff or you should take it elsewhere for hybrid related service.

That part #7M6Z-2C286-B has a higher list price that general Ford parts mark-up. It has a published list price of $3335.60 but a wider percentage margin to cost. they should easily be able to discount to around $2131.45 and yet maintain a 30%rgp.((( I can not speak for another dealer’s pricing policy. This is just my opinion as a Ford dealer parts man myself having access to these numbers. ))) It would still be up to you to wheel and deal over this repair.

Number 4, Maybe you already have posted in multiple venues for maximum exposure, but if not …visit the forums on hybridcars.com or fordforums.com to see if anyone else has encountered similar issues and what they may have done about it. I have not yet, but as a hybrid Escape owner myself, I think I’d like an answer too.

kg


#3

Yes, This is my regular dealer where I bought the vehicle three years ago. You’re right, they are not very saavy about Hybrids. They are also not very customer oriented either. I believe that most of the Ford dealerships in my area (Napa, CA)have closed as they were franchises. My dealer is owned rather than a franchise. I don’t want to pay another $174 for a different dealership to look at my manual and listen to another car. I know it’s a Hybrid and bound to be more expensive to repair; however, it doesn’t seem they did $174 worth of diagnostics.
Even Ford engineering admitted that these pumps seem to be louder as the car gets older. I am wondering if there might be a design defect that does not show until the car has some miles on it – mine is at 65,000mi and the problem started at around 60,000 plus or minus. Do you know if there any way I can check on this? The problem seems to remain the same – it has not gotten worse in the time since it started. And it started abruptly. One day normal sound. Next day louder(?) fluttery sound. I didn’t write about it before, but occasionally I experience a loss of power – loss of compression? – a lag if you will – after I have driven about 3 hours (this is my commute 2x week). The next day back to normal.Have you heard of this problem? Thanks so much for your help.


#4

I’ll post this question on the Ford inter-dealer boards in fmcdealer.com.
Please tell me your v.i.n. to check for t.s.bs and other service messages.
kg


#5

Is there any warranty left on the vehicle?


#6

still waiting for v.i.n. from the OP per my previous post.

With that the dealer can check if the owner has warranty beyond the 3/36, and check the part number basic ,2C286, and know if it’s covered.


#7

I received a response from a New York dealer more experienced in hybrid service ( fleets of taxis ).
The part number I told you earlier is the newest in a chain of superceded numbers since the inception of the Escape hybrid in '05. A superceded part number indicates a production change, yet remaining the same part.
The NY dealer knows what Ford told your dealer - they get noisey with age - and the production changes made over the years will solve the problem and keep it from recurring.

Replacement of the unit is, in fact, the only known solution.

Responses to my inter-dealer query said NO rebuild or cleaning procedures are used on this unit.

A possible recourse might be for YOU to call Ford on the 800 number in the owner’s manual ( 800-392-3673 ? ) asking for warranty arbitration. If not totaly warranty, maybe they’ll help out. The 2C286 pump is technically not covered beyond the basic 3/36 unless you bought the extended warranty offered by Ford ( hybrid high voltage items remain covered 8yrs/100,000 ) — But your argument might be; that the warranty guide in your car says ‘‘hybrid unique component’’ by the 8/100,000 coverage line and this 7M6Z-2C286-B is not used on any other Ford except the Escape HYBRID, therefore…?

Otherwise, 1) live with it noisey…2) sell it ‘as is’…or 3) negotiate a better price from the dealer knowing my insight on part pricing.


#8

I found the part at Amazon and the price was $2968 and the shipping weight 10lb.

How the heck does such a small thing cost so much, except in a CSI lab?


#9

The VIN is: 1FMCU96H96KC96177

And the mileage is 68,544


#10

I did not buy the extended warranty. But, from what Ken Green says below it looks like I might have a case for warranty. The part is solely for the hybrid …


#11

I wrote another response but it did not show up. So I will try again. Since I wrote the missing response, I contacted Ford customer service as you suggested. They were very nice, but said that my questions were technical and that I would have to talk to the dealership. As Napa Ford was not helpful, I have made an appointment with another dealership – Holder Ford of Sonoma, CA – and will drop by on Monday to have them listen to the noise. Of course customer service looked up the part and said that it was not under the hybrid unique component warranty. I asked why and they said (I talked with rep Heather and her supervisor Robert) they did not know why, the list they looked on just said it was not covered. I am hoping I get some help from Holder Ford, but expectations are low. The guy at Holder said that there were no service bulletins for the problem, indicating that this is not a widespread problem. (Maybe because these cars are not very old since they just started making them in 2005?) This does not seem right. A part this expensive that is used for hybrids only should be covered. What are your thoughts?


#12

I ran your vin at our service write up as with every customer in the door and, alas, the 2c286 is not covered beyond the basic 3/36 ( braking systems ). ok, so we tried.:frowning:

There’s a ford dealer website selling this part to everyone at a minimal percent markup from dealer cost. http://directfordparts.com . If the diagnosis proves the need for Ford part # 7M6Z-2C286-B , they will sell it to you @ $1775.21

But, wheel and deal at the dealer for the possibility of a “price matching” deal ( I would at my ford dealer ) because of the warranty issues heretofore on the installed part. You may find the online source would warranty the part only but not pay labor. Parts and labor purchased at a dealer are covered 1 yr/12,000m.


#13

All this part does is help with the overall mpg of the car? And we a willing to pay so much for this. It seems you can either use slightly more gas or pay a lot for this feature. I conclude the car can still be driven fine with this pump inop? or not?. I much more in favor of a lower tech approach, I don’t want a car with one of these,and we thought we were being imposed on with ABS.


#14

Maybe this is one of those situations like cat converters??..since we MUST have it , they can charge any thing they want ?

On the Escape Hybrid, since the engine goes completely to sleep, - 0 rpm - electric drive components are needed to maintain continuous function. This 2c286 pump is not only the abs but is the brake’s constant power source as well. ( think of your vacuum power brakes when your engine dies.)
The power steering is electric drive on this car too.


#15

So, if this part does more than help the abs, what happens if the part goes out. Can the gas system override the electric and keep the car going? At least to get it to a dealership? Also should there be a sound on both sides of the car? Or is the pump on the right and controls both the right brakes and the left? I don’t have the money to take care of the problem now. I would like to wait a few months. Maybe, all in all, this car will be too expensive to fix if anything else goes wrong. (Like the compression problem I wrote about above.)Would you recommend getting another car instead of fixing this one?


#16

When I post a question on the Ford dealer forum, the most informative answers come from a tech at Manhattan Ford-linc-merc.
I don’t know if giving out his number is kosher but you might see if you can speak to him one-on-one. Many times a ‘joe customer’ is unable to speak directly to a tech. But try ;
Yury Tsygutkin 212-581-7800 / 866-656-8558

( remember, you did not hear this from me. )


#17

I took the car to Holder Ford in Sonoma and they were terrific. I got to talk to the technician who works solely on hybrids and also has an Escape Hybrid himself. He listened to the sound and said that it was not unusual for the pump to get louder although his had not done so yet. He said that the normal brakes will still work, and only the abs will go out if something does go wrong. He said that I could even drive it if that happened. He gave the car a clean bill of health and so, I guess the problem is solved. Thanks so much for your help.


#18

Thank you for the update.

This is the correct way to close a discussion thread. Too many posters leave us all in the dark wondering if they even read our words or resolved their issue.

Thanks again, Rita.


#19

Thanks for the info on the mark up on the pump. My 2007 FEH is in shop now (37,000 miles) for the failure of the pump. 10 days out of warranty and neither the dealer nor Ford is stepping up help. I will see if I can get them to drop the price a little.


#20

Was there any type of warning before the pump failed?