My 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid has an error the history report from the dealer states “Will need brake system servo set replaced”. This is apparently part number 01469-SNC-A06 which will run me $1,953.33 to purchase plus an additional 4.5hrs*$89.95/hr =$404.78 for a total of $2,358+tax. When I went to the dealer back in September, this part was on national back order (meaning to me either a lot of people need it or it is a really rare repair). The part is now in and to say that I am unenthusiastic about this repair is a big understatement.
My understanding is that the brake system servo is integral to the regeneration/hybrid system. For instance, since the brake system servo went out, my hybrid no longer turns off at a stop-sign/lights and the MPG has dropped.
So my with careful driving habits, I would top out at 41 (sometimes 42) MPG. My hybrid now is ~36 MPG for a differential of 5 MPG.
Gas right now is $3.19/gallon so my 5 MPG difference that makes my Honda run at difference of 1.57 Miles Per Dollar so multiplying by $2,358 for my repair would mean it would take 3,696 miles to pay for itself.
So a few questions:
Has anyone else had this problem ?
Did I calculate my miles to payoff correctly ?
Any advice on whether this is worth it? I do put more than that on a year so it will take some time but not over a year to pay off. My head understands but my billfold refuses to understand
Thats unfortunate. I haven’t heard of that happening before. Ex-Toyota technician here, so I have worked a lot with hybrids. Haven’t done that before though. Mostly what I see with hybrids is needing the big battery pack replaced which is a crappy and dangerous job. Touch the wrong thing=big shock and dead pretty quick. Anyways…yea that is a ton of money for a repair…but on the other hand its a honda…if you take care of the vehicle it should last a long time. I drive about 15000 miles a year…so that would definitely be worth it to me to make the repair if your calculations are correct. How often do you buy new vehicles? if you are planning on keeping it for awhile I would do the repair. If you are a person that likes to get a different car every year then the choice for me would be a lot harder. But then you have to think…who would want to pay the higher price for a hybrid if it didnt work as a hybrid? So the value of the car would drop quite a bit I would think.
How many miles does the car have on it? Seems like quite the premature failure…if it doesnt have a whole ton of miles…me myself would get a hold of corporate Honda or something and try to get the repair done for free. Like Toyota for instance used to replace the big battery packs for free even when they were out of warranty to make sure they keep their customers happy. Because the battery pack is also a high dollar repair.
Only you can determine whether that’s worth it, I think. I take it you bought a hybrid because, besides it is better on gas, it is also better for the environment.
If that was your motivation, well, there you go…
Agree with MikeinNH’s math. The repair is not going to be cost-effective. Try to get Honda to foot the bill by contacting the regional office. If that doesn’t work, you have to decide whether “being green” is more important to you than saving $2000. If you decide to “un-hybridize” your car, and stick with the lower 36 MPG, you might even be able to do yourself another favor by having the battery pack removed, selling it for some extra $$, and thereby lightening the car a bit, too. Don’t know if this is actually safe, or even technically possible, but I’d ask the question. If you can sell the battery pack and make the car lighter, and thereby slightly more fuel efficient, sounds like a win-win to me.
Years ago, when gasoline cost about 25 cents a gallon, a Borg Warner overdrive was about a $100 option on a car. Though it saved gas, I think that the standard calculation was that a person would have to drive 100,000 miles to make the overdrive pay for itself. Most cars wore out at about 100,000 miles back then anyway. If the overdirve unit went out, it wasn’t repaired very often. I guess history is repeating itself with battery packs in hybrids.
MikeInNH - I knew that I did something wrong. I did this calculation back in Sept. and had something similar but forgot where I put it …
jesmed - interesting idea ! I’ll have to look into it !
We recently got one of those “teasers” in the mail where the dealer said they would buy the car outright for $11K. I purchased the car from my Father so I got the family discount so the $11K is attractive considering to put $2300 into it to re-hybridize it. I wonder if the dealer will take it as is !
What burns me is that something that is so integral to the hybrid part of the car is so expensive to fix/replace. The pay-offs for hybrids are so marginal brand new and when you need to repair something it completely blows the cost effectiveness out of the water.
Triedaq - this is not a problem with the battery in and of itself (I have heard about other folks having this problem). Instead my problem is related to charging the battery.
Problem is, you’re on the bleeding edge of a whole new technology, and although Honda and Toyota engineers are pretty darn good at making reliable auto parts (Toyota’s recent woes noted, however), it’s going to take 10 years or so to find out how well all these new hybrid components stand up to real-world use, how much it costs to keep a hybrid in running condition, etc. And unfortunately, you got bit by an “unknown unknown,” as Donald Rumsfeld liked to say. I feel your pain.
As a side note your car is not “DE-HYBRID’ized”… Its just not stoping at stop lights from what you said, if the battery was not getting charged another way, the car would be VERY sliggish… I have driven Insights with low hybrid batterys and they actually shut off the assist while the battery re-charges. I can tell you its a HUGE differance in performance.
WIth that said, my only concern would be for the battery pack, and its longevity. If its not beting charged properly it may die sooner then later and at that point your car is DEAD… The hybrid battery is need to start the motor (there is no starter in the traditional sence)… With out it your not going any where and fast.
Jesmed is correct in this one…even though hybrids have been around for about 10 years or so,they are still a “new technology.” Thats also the reason that the parts are so expensive…Think of it like TVs when a new tv comes out they are crazy expensive until they get going and then the price comes down. Also a side note to the people on here that think they are “going green” and saving the environment, thats not really true. There are a lot of hidden facts that come with hybrids that you never hear about like for instance…The amount of polution created from making just one of those big battery packs…When hybrids first came out the general rule was you had to drive the hybrid for 20 years before it would start “out performing” the gasoline car in polution output. The last I heard it was down to ten years before you start out performing a gasoline car. Anyways this has nothing to do with the original comment.
Problem is, you’re on the bleeding edge of a whole new technology, and although Honda and Toyota engineers are pretty darn good at making reliable auto parts (Toyota’s recent woes noted, however), it’s going to take 10 years or so to find out how well all these new hybrid components stand up to real-world use
The hybrid technology has been around for OVER 10 years. So it’s no longer bleeding edge. And if you look at the track record of the hybrids…you’ll find that they are among the most reliable vehicles on the road and least expensive to operate (EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO REPLACE THE BATTERY PACK). The technology has proven to be very reliable. Sure some people are going to have problems. Honda is now getting sued because many hybrid customers aren’t seeing the gas mileage Honda advertised. Not sure if this is a glitch in the system or just shady marketing or just a mistake. But all-in-all the hybrid technology WORKS…and is very reliable.
The problem I have with it…is you really need to have certain type of commute and drive a certain number of miles to take full advantage of the technology. There are many people who own hybrids and 95% of their driving is highway with and never exceed 15k miles a year. Those people would be better off buying something else.
I still would say the Hybrid is a new technology. When I said 10 years, I was talking about Mass Production. Which I was still off because the prius came out in 2000…so it has been 12 years. But I still would say that is relatively new. The prices on hybrids have come down a ton over the last 12 years! But I still think prices for parts will continue to drop as more hybrids are being produced. I would like to see some Hybrid performance vehicles come out. Since the torque of electric motors is insane it would be cool to see what they could do with it. A few years back there was an accord made like this that used the hybrid feature as more of a performance enhancer but was quickly taken off the market due to salesmen not understanding that they were not designed for the economical use as much as for the performance.
A few years back there was an accord made like this that used the hybrid feature as more of a performance enhancer but was quickly taken off the market due to salesmen not understanding that they were not designed for the economical use as much as for the performance.
It had NOTHING to do with the salesman…it had everything to do with the market. I don’t know of too many people who think of Honda Accord and Performance. While we’ve owned and loved 2 Honda Accords…they are NOT by any stretch of the imagination performance vehicles. There was no market for the vehicle…so sales were dismal.
As for hybrids being mass produced…THEY HAVE BEEN FOR OVER 10 YEARS…Your concept of what mass production is and I (and the rest of the automotive industry) are different. The Prius was NOT hand made. As I said the technology has been around a LONG time…and has already proven itself. There have been several hundred THOUSAND hybrid vehicles sold around the world since their introduction. Right now production is over 40k/year.
Im agreeing with you…I said the Prius became available around the world in 2000…thats 12 years. You are right its been more then 10 years. And your also right about there being a lot of hybrids…Half of toyotas line up are available in hybrids. 12 years still is not that long though. I guess Im not really sure what point you are arguing…I believe they have come A LONG WAY with hybrids…Are they perfect? Nope. Expenses are still high compared to the increase in mpg. Another question I have not really related to hybrids is why not go diesel???
With technology like mercedes’ blutech…emissions are NOTHING like they used to be with diesels…and they get GREAT gas mileage and are powerful little motors (the car motors).
Another question I have not really related to hybrids is why not go diesel???
For many people a diesel is far better then a hybrid. Hybrids are GREAT…but as I said have a very limited market. The reason hybrid costs are high is due to the limited production. While 40k vehicles a year is far more then they were 10 years ago…it doesn’t even compare to the 200k+ F150’s sold each year.
Yeah I would take a diesel over a Hybrid any day of the week. Unfortunatly my only option for that would really be a TDI VW… My biggest issue with that is VWs lack of reliability as of late (although I do hear they are getting better). I also feel they are overly complex, and like a BMW once the warranty is up the cost of ownership goes thrugh the ROOF !! I had a friend with a 2000 TDI, and yes it got 50 MPG on the highway, and 40+ around town, but he had to replace the intake, and the turbo, and all the window regulators a few times, as well as some other issues. He took great care of his car, used only VW parts and still had all kinds of issues.
I want to see more Diesel options out there and I would be a buyer
I want to see more Diesel options out there and I would be a buyer
The market to me which makes great sense it the Mid-size SUV market. Nissan sells a Turbo Diesel in Europe and South America that has the Same hp as the gas model…almost 50% MORE torque…and almost a 50% increase in gas mileage. For people like me who’s been buying this class of vehicle for over 20 years…It makes perfect sense.
