Get a test light probe so you can verify where power is getting to. You need to first check the power panel under the hood. Most of, if not all of the fuses inside there should have power on them at all times. If they don’t then you need to check the connection from the battery to the panel for a problem. Check the chassis/battery ground connection also. If those things are ok then the ignition switch and dash fuse panel needs to be checked for a problem. This should be a pretty simple problem to find.
I think a neutral start switch could fail in a way that could cause the engine to turn off. That’s not a normal failure mode tho. But if it shorted something it shouldn’t to ground when activated, that could turn the engine off.
When an engine simply doesn’t crank, after checking that the battery is good and battery connections are clean, the next step an experienced mechanic would do is measure the voltages at both stater terminals during attempted cranking. If either is below 10-10.5 volts, that would be indicative of an electrical problem prior to the starter. If both are above 10.5 volts, then there is probably something wrong w/the starter motor itself.
Do all the gauges and indicator lights, the PRNDL reading and the odometer light up and read correctly? On these vans the connector and the soldered points on the instrument circuit board can cause all sorts of strange problems. If the panel isn’t working perfectly, then you should investigate. I have gotten things to work, briefly, with a firm dope slap on top of the dash, over the speedometer.
If you google Chrysler van or town and country or Caravan and dashboard you’ll eventually find photos and an explanation. I had to pull the whole thing apart and resolder about 16 points on the board.
@wentwest; I have a 2000 myself, but from what I have read the instrument cluster solder points going bad, just causes the cluster not to work properly. Mine hasn’t had this problem (yet), but that’s what I have read.
Thank you all for the post. I inquired my best to find a mechanic but no one recommends a place. If at all they suggest me going to a dealer. As you all mentioned it, the car is worth nothing for a trade-in, but getting a new one needs more green in hand?!
Wentwest:- All lights, on dash board come-up when the key is place and put ‘ON’. I tried to blow the horn while trying to start if there is any electrical wire/harness issues, the horn honks well, the headlight is fine, all electrical system is good (Windows, wiper, radio, CD).
GeorgeSan Jose:- The power is around 12 volt, the mechanic says that everything is good, as I had mentioned earlier. The power running to the PCM is what seems to be issue, but they could not figure out where the problem is.
Does anyone suggest me to go to the dealer? Trade-in value is $500 for my van, I had spent $750 so far and has a gas worth $ 100 in the tank.
There is no need to go to the dealer. They are not necessarily more competent than an independent shop and will certainly charge more, plus likely try to sell you a new vehicle. Look for a shop that specializes in electrical work and troubleshooting, as others have mentioned.
I worked for Chrysler/Dodge dealers for 20 years, there is normally a $65 diagnostic fee to check this. I don’t recall ever getting paid more than a 1/2 an hour for diagnostic time for an ordinary no start condition.
As with any repair facility they may offer you “maintenance services” with the repair, tell them if you are satisfied with the repair you may schedule an appointment for the additional services. You can get maintenance done elsewhere, you don’t have to return to the dealer.
BTW we didn’t get passed the first step on page one of this thread, connect the scan tool and see if the PCM is dead.
@Villa … If the voltage at both terminals of the starter motor is 12 v during attempted cranking (the key in “start”), and it doesn’t crank (i.e. the starter motor doesn’t turn the engine), then the the starter motor almost certainly needs to be replaced.
Good morning. Well it seems so, when I attempted to start my Van, it did start like anyother time, without any extra attempt or sign, since, it started, based on earlier suggestions, thought of taking it to the delar or a shop, decided on a shop and drove it there (near to work place) and the mechanic after listening to my story said they are booked for this week. They asked me to make an appointment for next week (which I did letting them know, if my van does not start I will not be in and will call them to cancel). He said, he needs the van to do intermitent testing (diagnostics) and based on what I said, he said looks like a sensor (starter) issue. Now, the last option of going to the delaer remains, if my van starts when I leave from work…wanted to share before starting my work day.
@GeorgeSanJose: I am typing in the full report I got from my mechanic. Hope this clears the technicality and does bring in new thoughts.
The report reads like this:- Checked for full battery power-Good. Tested relays and fuses-Good. Tested for power at the starter motor-Good. Starter has power at the terminal (tap tested a lot as well) wire from the PCM. Started will engage when jumed indicating that it is not the starter. Park/neutral switch-Good. PCM may not be grounding the relay/wriring issue. WIre comes off the starter, through the harness then from the PCM computer. As testing, a few times, the card would start at random starts of the key without any repair or really gigling any wires. Tap tested the PCM and the wiring harnesspno change. After van sat overnight, the car started again- need car in no start mode to do testing. Really hit or miss whenn the car wants to start. We at times also did not have communication to the vehicle computer when plugged in through the data link connector. Most of the time no communication using four different scanners and one code reader. Checked for power and grounds at the connector as well as BUS connection. Measured power at pin connector (#46) (main battery power) and was reading erratic at 0.8 V to 12.8 V. When the furst removed, voltage jumps to 13.2 V. Suspect wiring chafing and or corrosion with the irregular readings from poor resistance. Short to power and or ground.
Is it possible that the crankshaft position sensor is bad? If the same was bad, it should have showed up on the above described work isn’t it? Or did the mechanic miss that.
This statement is good info,
" Measured power at pin connector (#46) (main battery power) and was reading erratic at 0.8 V to 12.8 V. When the furst removed, voltage jumps to 13.2 V. Suspect wiring chafing and or corrosion with the irregular readings from poor resistance. Short to power and or ground."
This means there is a bad power wire connection to PIN #46, not a short or ground problem. A savy electrical tech should know that. Whatever wire supplies power to #46 needs to be checked for a bad connection to the power source. It could be a pin in a connector or something else. Hopefully by moving wires around in the right area it will show the trouble up while monitoring the voltage at pin 46. The chase is on.
The fact that the scanners didn’t work means the power to the data connector is not there. It most likely ties to the same power source that is having the trouble.
I presume you are having trouble getting the starter motor to work and if so the crank sensor circuit has nothing to do with the starter circuit. Though a bad sensor could keep the engine from starting up while the starter motor is cranking the engine over.
@Villa, it sounds like this is nearing conclusion. You’ve got someone DVM in hand on the case. I expect the resolution will be soon. Yes, it’s of course possible the crank sensor is bad, but the erratic voltage reading needs to be resolved prior to beginning with any new theories. One problem resolved at a time.
I’m having some difficulty understanding clearly what you are saying. Mechanics use the term “crank” to mean the starter motor is engaging and turning the engine, independent of whether the engine actually starts running by itself or not. The normal mode of operation then is to turn the key to “on”, then to “start”, the engine cranks, then it starts, and the key is returned to the “on” position, and the engine continues to run. But it is possible for the engine to crank but not start.
So let me ask you this: When you turn the key to “Start”, can you hear the starter motor engage and turn (crank) the engine? And if so, does it do this every time you turn the key to “start”, or does it fail to crank sometimes? And when it does crank, does it start every time, or does it fail to start sometimes, and if so, how frequently does it fail to start? e.g. for the times it cranks, it fails to start 1 time out of 10? or 9 times out of 10?
You finally got some decent information on the inspection results. It seems the mechanic followed the no start test in the drivability book. If you trust his information about erratic voltage at pin 46 (fused battery+) this is what needs to be repaired (wiring harness or PDC). I wouldn’t start replacing sensors, a shorted crank sensor won’t cause a PCM no response condition on this vehicle.
BTW on June 8th you stated the vehicle would no longer start but now your driving it. With intermittent electrial problems on an old Caravan you’ll likely hear “why don’t you come back next week, we’re busy right now” from more shops. People don’t like to get involved with odd problems, they are not as profitable as regular repairs.
@Cougar: Thank you for the feedback. I was trying to look out on web what the PIN #46 means. Could not get any information on that. Will try out.
@GeorgeSanJose: I am sorry for the confusion by not using proper technical terms (I have no big knowledge on cars, just learning as it goes). The van was put on ‘ON’ and then to ‘Start’, the van starts in a single crank. Whenever it starts it starts smoothly. There is no issue of cranking but not starting. However, other times, the key is moved from ‘On-Start-On’ there is no sound except for a click.
@Nevada_545: Yes, the van was not starting so could not run, I was religiously trying to start everyday in the morning and evening. Yesterday morning, the van started so took it to a shop, no luck, came to work, parked the van. There was no surprise for me, the van did not start in the evening had to leave the vehicle at work place and got a ride with a co-worker to get back home.
What I noticed is that, when the van does not start, two lights which get turned ‘on’ on the dash board are the Brakes and ABS lights.
Is it an easy job to change the wiring harness or PDC (Can anyone please say what this is?). If so, I can give a try if not I think it is time to move on and find another Van for my wife. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.
You’re welcome for the help.
The factory service manual will show where PIN #46 is at. You could also ask the technician that worked on the van where it is at. You don’t need to replace the wiring harness or the PDC panel to fix this trouble and it would be very time consuming and expensive to do that. The most simple thing to do would be to run a new wire connection between the power source and pin #46 but even that may not fix the trouble because it could be due to something else before the power supply point though there isn’t much else before that except maybe to another power source connection. The fault area needs to pinned down between the two points where it is good and where it is bad then decide what needs to be done to fix it. This being an intermittent problem makes it more difficult to find but using good troubleshooting techniques would hopefully locate the trouble without much problem. Tapping on suspected trouble areas with the screwdriver handle can locate bugs usually.
Did I miss out? This thread is like reading a mystery novel and discovering the last 50 pages are blank. So, @Villa, if you’re out there in cyberspace, what happened?