At 10 years our vehicles are over 300k miles.
I would say that this makes your experience with reliability not applicable to most people whose driving pattern is very different. Anecdotal evidence indeed…
It seems to me that if someone is inclined to buy the most reliable cars on the road, they might also be more attentive to maintenance than the average owner. I wonder if this is related to the difference in reliability scores. Just wondering.
" I fill out the questionnaires every year."
I throw mine out every year, along with the raffle tickets and request for donations! The survey information is of such little value to me, and out of whack, that I can’t waste the time.
What does my lack of responding do to the survey results?
CSA
@jtsanders
"It seems to me that if someone is inclined to buy the most reliable cars on the road, they might also be more attentive to maintenance than the average owner. I wonder if this is related to the difference in reliability scores. Just wondering."
I’ve wondered that, too. Couple that with the illusion that only manufacturers’ brands of fluids (and or parts) can be used and other gimmicks (dash lights for maintenance, etcetera)…
…When I worked at Volkswagen dealers (when the Earth’s surface was still cooling), VW would tell the buyers that they had to return to the dealer for 2 warranty years for regular maintenance and have their booklet stamped with an authorized stamp, by an authorized VW employee in order to maintain the warranty…
If the manufacturers can “Condition” customers to come back regularly it’s good for profit and to maintain the cars to keep the legend alive.
CSA
Seen and read? (anecdotal)
Sorry…but controlled surveys is not called anecdotal evidence.
I would say that this makes your experience with reliability not applicable to most people whose driving pattern is very different. Anecdotal evidence indeed.
Where did I say my experience wasn’t anecdotal evidence?
@MikeInNH
"Sorry…but controlled surveys is not called anecdotal evidence."
Sorry… controlled?
I throw my surveys away. I represent GM owners.
Besides, who controls me if I want to fill it out any way I please to and mail it back?
Controlled?
Please respond with the answer.
CSA
The average CR reader is not a car buff; they are mainly concerned about getting value for money, and report on many consumer products. They report on birth control items with equal zeal as on cars.
They tend to be more aware of equipment care but not necessarily wiser. Since there are a quarter of a million car survey responses it tends to be at least as accurate as any other survey and a lot more accurate than Donald Trump’s popularity figures, which are based on flippant answers.
I participate in True Delta and its results, though based on fewer responses closely parallel CR’s findings.
The J D Power “Long Term” survey also shows a close parallel to CR. The J D Power owner satisfaction figures based on the first 3 months of ownership, are useless. Almost everyone enjoys their honeymoon, no matter who they married!!! It’s not even a good measure of how good the dealer is.
Having used CR since 1965 to GUIDE my purchase decisions, they’ve seldom been wrong. I only disagree with them when they’re trying to tell me what to eat. And I wished they would drop their social activism.
Not ALL surveys are like Consumer Reports. Many of the data is collected through repair facilities and insurance companies (extended warranty insurance). I agree the Consumer reports is not controlled…but the data from the repair facilities and warranty companies are. Extended warranty companies have a very good amount of data on vehicle repair data. Companies like Nexus Lexus also collects a of that data.
@Docnick
Having used CR since 1965 to GUIDE my purchase decisions, they’ve seldom been wrong.
I appreciate your point of view. I too have subscribed since the early 60s. I buy Mr. Coffee machines and sunscreen based on their lab testing.
I gave up on the car reliability survey results when for every single car I’ve owned they got it wrong. I’ve not experienced any of the problems they portend.
CSA
Now here is anecdotal evidence: The most troublesome new vehicle I ever purchased was a 2003 Toyota 4Runner. The serpentine belt started chirping 2 days after we bought the vehicle. We took the 4Runner back and the belt was replaced. Two days later, it started chirping again. Back to the dealer and the belt was replaced again. This time, the belt was not only chirping, but the engine leaked oil. The belt was not installed correctly and it pulled out the crankshaft oil seal. The 4Runner went back to the dealer. The oil seal was replaced and another new belt was installed. Two days later, the chirp came back. This time, I informed the dealer that either the vehicle was fixed, I be given a loaner car to drive while the 4Runner was repaired or, under the lemon law, I wanted my,money back. This time it was fixed. It turned out to be a weak spring in the belt tensioner. If the dealer had elected to buy back the 4Runner, I probably would have gone to a,Honda Pilot.
However, when I did need to buy a,minivan 8 years later, I bought a Toyota Sienna. It has had no major problems in 72000_miles. I didn’t buy the Sienna because of Toyota reliability, but because it fit our needs. We still have the 4Runner and after the incident with the belt, it has had no major problems. We bought the 4Runner because we liked the selectable 4 wheel drive.
I gave up on the car reliability survey results when for every single car I've owned they got it wrong. I've not experienced any of the problems they portend.
I use Consumer Guide as ONE source. When I find several sources agreeing then there’s a good bet the data is correct. Rarely do they not match…but they have.
I would really like for someone to explain to me the logic, or lack of, behind CR’s comments on the 2013 Camry.
That reports says the 6 cylinder Camry bodies are junk and the 4 cylinder Camry bodies are muy perfecto.
Someone explain to me how CR can be taken seriously when they print bilge like that.
The problem with asking someone about a complaint is that the person asking the question may not be getting the full story on that complaint. Not like we haven’t see that here, huh…?
Couple of examples regarding complaints to corporate and this is in regards to Subaru.
-
One week of new Subaru ownership leads to a rattle in the cabin blower. It was a mung bean from an overhanging tree. Customer says that he is NOT, no way in hell going to park anywhere other than under that tree and that he is not going to trim or cut it down. A week later he was back and told he was going to pay for mung bean removal this time. Cursing, he called corporate about the shoddy design.
-
Customer adds some kind of funky mobile antenna to the top right of his windshield. He now complains about a wind whistle at seventy at the top right “that wasn’t there before the antenna was installed”.
Sorry, you put the antenna there so it’s remove it or live with it. Again, cursing he calls corporate Subaru about the shoddy design.
Now ask yourself how many CR responders are of the same mindset no matter the make.
Like @Mike, I use CR as one major input when buying a car. Although CR panned the Hyundai Elantra as “not acceptable” a few years ago due to some safety concern, I still would have bought one. Mainly because of its reasonable price and outstanding reliability. Likewise they have always rejected the Toyota Yaris but two of my relatives swear by them and found it to be the most reliable small car they had ever owned.
They now rate the VW Passat and Audi as good, but I would not come near one due to the high upkeep as the car gets older.
Where did I say my experience wasn't anecdotal evidence?
Where did I say you said your experience wasn’t anecdotal evidence?
Well, not to be flippant, @“common sense answer” , but you ask what is the effect of you not filling out the CR survey; since you like your GM vehicles and consider them highly reliable, the effect is their vehicles fare just a tiny little bit worse in the survey than they would have if you had filled out the survey. Just sayin’.
To be fair, I don’t fill out the survey either. Mostly because I don’t consider myself to be in a good position to determine the answers. Most of my home appliances were left behind by the previous owner, so I don’t even know how old they are. My cars are w-a-a-a-y too old to even be included in the survey.
Agree with @Triedaq , CR seems to be aimed at a higher end consumer. When I read their microwave oven rankings, the cheapest one on the list was said to cost $119. I ended up buying a GE microwave at Wal-Mart for $57 that has served me for about 8 years now. Same with my current lawn mower. Purchased at end-of-season clearance for $114, just finished its 4th season and runs like new. Even if it never ran again, it only cost me $30 per summer to cut my grass (+gas). But way too low end to even be listed in the CR ratings.
Maybe Consumer Reports rejected the Yaris because it is about as much fun as two feet of snow on the driveway. The recommendations use reliability as one component of their assessment. CR also drives the cars. I had a Yaris twin (Vitz) when I was on a business trip. It worked fine where I was since the maximum speed on the island was 50 KPH. We couldn’t go anywhere fast. The poor handling and glacial acceleration were of no consequence.
@“Ed Frugal” I am in your camp when answering CR’s questionnaire for many items. It bothers me when I read the article some time back on “Repair or Replace”. If something goes wrong with any of my appliances, I should, according to CR, replace the appliance. A year and half ago, our washing machine, which is probably 20 years old, started leaking water. I was busy with concerts at the time, so I called a,repairman. The machine was repaired for $148. I certainly couldn’t buy a new machine for that price. If it stops tomorrow, I think I got my $148 worth of service. CR urges its readers to purchase energy conserving appliances. Yet, I have friends and relatives that have purchased energy conserving appliances and have had all kinds of problems. Our 20 year old refrigerator and 27 year old range and dishwasher perform flawlessly. My church has a refrigerator that was donated that we no longer need. It still works. The electric company will give us $40 for it, pick it up and destroy it because it isn’t as energy efficient as the new models. I successfully argued to donate the refrigerator to an organization that in turn will give it to someone who needs a,refrigerator. I look at the lawn mowers in CR’s tests. They are all above $200. I bet I could buy a $100 special and make it last at least 10 years.
In school, I always took my VW to the VW dealer for service and repairs. Not necessarily to get my book stamped but because the owners daughter was often there and she was a class mate. Decisions are made for many different reasons.