The OBD-2 codes you posted indicate all the cylinders were mis-firing. That happened on day one of your saga. There is starting to be some BS creeping into some of the posts…If there was still 1.5 quarts of oil left in the engine, that is indeed enough to maintain oil pressure (no warning light) and to lubricate the engine. As long as there is oil pressure, the engine is being lubricated. The entire engine is lubricated by pressurized oil. As long as that oil pressure is there, EVERYTHING is being lubricated.
So now we have a whole new situation…If a cam seized (stopped rotating) while still being provided with pressurized oil, then SOMETHING ELSE caused the failure, a mechanical defect that MAY be covered by your warranty…
ZERO oil in the crankcase is one thing, 1.5 quarts of oil in the crankcase is something else again. Again, as long as oil pressure was maintained, engine damage due to lubrication failure is unlikely. The engine does not know or care how much oil is in the crankcase. The engine only requires that pressurized oil is being pumped through it…
Having said that, had you been driving across the desert at 70 MPH, the 1.5 quarts of oil would have been quickly overheated and rendered useless. But I don’t think that is the situation here…
After skimming through the mountain of information here, I have a few comments.
You need to stop any mention of the oil life sensor, the last oil change, and the sticker telling you when to change the oil. None of this has anything at all to do with the level of the oil, which is the issue. If you don’t understand this, there’s no point in further discussion with you.
I didn’t spend enough time here to sort out if we’ve decided that the oil pressure light was working or not. Regardless, what you don’t seem to be understanding is that this sensor is designed to catch other failures, not low oil level. Often it does catch low oil level, in which case you’re lucky, but you simply can’t count on that.
Quite honestly, I’m annoyed by your repeated argument that you don’t need to check the dipstick frequently because you believe other people don’t do it. What other people do is completely irrelevant here. Your owner’s manual tells you to check it because it does need to be checked, as you’ve proven yourself!
Ok P0301,302,303,304,305,306 were misfire codes on the 123456 cylinders, the PO 0340 was a camshaft position sensor error code, and the P0 300 is a Random misfire code which will generally set when you have more than one misfire. The rest of the codes are manufacture specific but probably relate to the other codes.
As soon as the CEL came on you were already in trouble with the Camshaft, my guess is it started to seize up and maybe the belt slipped a tooth, this would have set a P0340 since the crank sensor and cam sensor were not in sync anymore. This would also cause misfires, poor performance ect… Now just because the CEL comes on does not mean you have a major problem, but it can be indicative of a serious issue or it may be nothing, the check engine light will not come on directly because of low oil level or pressure but can come on due to the result of such.
I would say Honda is not liable for any repairs, you can try going to the original oil changer and see what happens, but it does not look very good for you. Please do this in the future no matter the outcome, check your fluids every week, and check you lights ect… while your at it, and most importantly check your tire pressure.
No one got hurt in this situation and its easy for me to sit here and say that because I am not up against a huge repair bill but I have to say either way its a lesson learned in life, and check those tires more often, you have to remember the most important thing here is the little one(s).
Would you agree that maybe the 1.5 quarts of oil would be enough to run the engine in most scenarios but might be enough to starve the engine in turns and stop ans starts? Maybe the light did come off and on and the OP didn’t notice, do this enough times and there will be damage. Once the oil becomes that low the problem just compounds itself.
We all know, whether you want to admit it or not, that probably 8 out of 10 people don’t do this.
You act as though this is some kind of universal truth. If it IS, where are you getting this statistic?
We rely on our cars to tell us what’s going on.
That is a totally PASSIVE approach to maintaining your car. You need to take an ACTIVE approach. Those who rely on their cars to tell them what is going on are more likely to destroy their engines from neglect. Those who follow the owner’s manual recommendations and do what they are supposed to do have cars that last much longer. Even if you are right, and eight of ten people don’t check their oil, wouldn’t you rather be one of the smart two instead of one of the ignorant eight?
Checking the oil on a regular basis is a possible reality for you. It is up to you to change your approach so this doesn’t happen to you again. It is within your power to do so. This is a reality for anyone who CHOOSES to take good care of her/his car.
I guess I am not going to get a direct answer to my direct question: “when was the last time you checked the oil?” Based on your non-answers to my direct question, I believe your answer is “The oil was just changed three months ago, why would I need to check the oil?” The answer to that question is THREE MONTHS IS TOO LONG TO GO WITHOUT CHECKING YOUR OIL!!! This obvious to everyone except you.
I am not going to relent on this topic because you are clearly in the wrong. You not only neglected your car, you are defending your choice to do so in the future. Learn a lesson from this experience.
All of the information posted has passed from a mechanic to the service manager, then via telephone to jacinta2030 and from there to this board in over 100 posts that flow back and forth like the tide.
The issue is: Did jacinta’s negligence cause the engine failure (she pays for it) OR
Did the engine fail because of a mechanical problem not necessarily related to lack of lubrication…(warranty pays for it)
The only one who knows FOR SURE is the mechanic who tears down the damaged engine, if indeed the engine is damaged…
EVERYTHING else posted in this thread is pure guesswork…
Let us not forget that this is a V-Tech motor, so at a certain point usually over a certain rpm, lets say 4200 rpm, there is a solenoid that is actuated which allows oil pressure from a spool valve to operate a locking pin which binds the high RPM cam follower to the low rpm ones. So with only 1.5 quarts of oil and the possibility of vtech coming on it may have been at a balance point where there was not enough oil to sustain the extra oil volume needed.
Jacinta, Did you ever rev this motor up a bit? Its ok if you did you can tell us I rev my Toyota sienna up to 5500 alot( especially When the pedal sticks, Haw haw), the toyota version of vtec kicks in at 4400 rmps and that baby scoots!
Just curious, because 1.5 quarts of oil is probably enough when idling but getting on the freeway at 4k rpms in a turn its probably not. Please answer this honestly there is nothing wrong running a motor up a bit, its just with the low oil condition it may be why the light was not on or intermitant.
What if the oil plug leaked for a reason not related to the last oil change? What if the OP unknowingly hit a piece of debris in the road?
I would agree the oil changer should be blamed if the oil was changed last week, or even two or three weeks ago, but with three months having passed, placing blame on anyone other than the neglectful owner who all but admits he doesn’t check the oil is going to be a big problem.
I would say sure its possible, but highly unlikely, the only vtech failures I ever saw were the solenoid that actuates the valve timing, and when those fail, you just don’t have as much power, no damage occurs to the engine. The actual vtech mechanisms are fairly simple and I don’t think one would break in a way to stop up the cam shaft. I suppose an actuation pin could break, but that would be easy to see. But I have never seen that happen, not to say it isn’t possible. We had a 2000 civic with vtech and that poor car seen some really high rpm, and alot of it, never missed a beat.
Caddyman don’t you wish we could see the car in question, we all could examine it for ourselves and we could tear it down and come to a definative conclusion It would be fun!
I am not saying it is not right to do so, but that it is unrealistic to most drivers, and I would think, drivers like me with a newer car.
I posted this question in previous comments which I guess you’re still not reading.
The question is:
If Honda is so adamant about drivers checking their oil weekly, then why the need for oil level indicators, low oil pressure gauges etc.? If owners are expected to keep an eye on oil level, then the oil pressure and what not would never be a factor.
I believe one or more of the gauges mal-functioned and didn’t give me any warnings about low oil pressure or engine trouble.
The manual doesn’t say anything about the car needing an emergency checkup if the malfunction lamp turns on either.
THank you Caddyman. That is the heart of this matter and the reason for posting. I have no knowledge except what the mechanic and honda tell me.
We’ve had bad experience with this particular Honda dealership trying to sell us on un-necessary work. Please don’t anyone comment that it can’t possibly be true that a dealer’s service bay would ever do such a thing. Puhhlleease!
But I’m not going to discount the experience of the service tech who first looked at my car. If he said the drain plug was loose, then it was.
My only confusion was to ask this board, why didn’t the oil pressure lights go on? What if the oil leaked out just this last week?
How does this board not know if I checked the oil on Monday? The car broke on a Wednesday. maybe on Monday the oil was fine. Why should I have thought to check it two days later when the malfunction light came on?
If the mechanic and the Honda Inspector looked at the tear down and could not see any evidence of oil starvation, my questions to this board was to simply ask for an explanation on why Honda insists it was oil starvation and the mechanic and Honda Inspector say otherwise.
I’ve not tried to put the blame on Honda, only to ask for answers since things are not adding up.
Like you said Caddyman, only the mechanic knows. He’s saying, with the backing of a Honda representative, that the engine showed no signs of oil starvation.
I’ve been simply asking this board to help me understand. I don’t need a “tough luck you should have checked your oil”, I need clarification and help in going forward.
Isn’t this board supposed to do that? What good is it doing by telling me things I should’ve done after the fact.
Civic,
I’m not sure if/when I revved it. But when the VSA light came on and I sputtered down my driveway, I’m sure I revved the engine to try and see if I could get it “unstuck”. Don’t laugh, I know it was probably not even possible it was stuck…it was just the way the car acted that made me think I should step on the gas a little more.
I don’t know if have any reason to rev up the engine, unless it won’t start…and then isn’t it normal to pump the gas? I think the AAA driver did that when he tried to start my car before towing it. And after I got in my car the next morning and couldn’t turn it over, I might have done it too.
But normally, with this being an SUV and not a sports car, I can’t see why I would rev the engine in the first place.
Elly,
Honda did not look under the hood. They are going by what the mechanic said. From the mechanic and inspector, they’ve both used words like stuck, seized, affected.
I am not saying it is not right to do so, but that it is unrealistic to most drivers, and I would think, drivers like me with a newer car.
Forgive me, but I must disagree. Someone like you with a newer car has more reason to keep a close eye on the oil. My car is 12 years old, and has about 187,000 miles on it. It is worth about $1,300 and it is paid for. Your new car was worth a lot more, and you probably financed the purchase. Not checking the oil can cost you a lot more than it could cost me. If I was driving a newer car like you, and I owed money on it, I would probably check the oil more often, not less. Someone with a newer car has a lot more to lose.
If Honda is so adamant about drivers checking their oil weekly, then why the need for oil level indicators, low oil pressure gauges etc.?
Those indicators and gauges are there to enhance the car and provide additional information. They aren’t there as a substitute for the oil dip stick. (I should note that some luxury cars now come with no dip stick, but yours isn’t one of those.) Your reasoning is flawed. You have assumed that these indicators and gauges will always function properly. That assumption has proved costly. Honda could add all kinds of enhancements to your car, but if they say in the owner’s manual that you should check the oil yourself manually, you should check the oil yourself manually.
Honda does lots of things for reasons other than “need.” You shouldn’t assume your fancy gauges and indicators are there because of a “need.” They could be there simply to impress you and get you to buy their car. In other words, it might have been a marketing decision, not an engineering decision.
I rev my Toyota sienna up to 5500 alot( especially When the pedal sticks, Haw haw), the toyota version of vtec kicks in at 4400 rmps and that baby scoots!
It would be fun!