Nobody banished them. They have banished themselves for fear of their heads exploding.
Caddy,
That’s what the manual said too. I’m not sure why that light went off though, but it coincided with the car “shuddering” when I tried to drive. I say “shudder” instead of “stutter” because the engine sounded fine. It was almost like I had the emergency brake on and the car just wouldn’t “go”.
Oh, my manual says its the malfunction lamp and to check your fuel cap. This light was the first to go on.
The shudder you felt was the VSA system activating, not the engine. We don’t need to go there, it’s not related…
Wow. Who would have ever thought the thread would get this long.
Let’s go back to looking at the "bottom line:. Having plowed through the entire thread, my understanding is that the engine failed and the Honda shop found little oil in the oil pan and a seized camshaft due to oil starvation. They denied the warranty claim due to the oil having been let run too low.
The oil pressure warning light apparently never illuminated, and you’ve appealed their claim denial based on that fact.
Engine teardown was only done to the point of finding the seized camshaft. Honda has now determined that in order to answer the claim appeal they now need to do a teardown sufficient to evaluate the crankshaft bearings and the cylinders as well as the actual wear surfaces of the cam and its bearings. I assume they’ll be checking for signs of additional damage due to oil starvation. They’ll probably find it.
As I understand, you’re not in contention that the camshaft was oil starved. But you feel the responsibility lies either with the last place that did the oil change, as you believe the oil should not have run down that quickly, and/or with Honda because the warning light never illuminated and there were no warnings that you were low on oil.
I understand your feelings. Perhaps if you insisted that they check the low pressure warning light system and it was in fact faulty you’d have a Honda fault to point to and have better success with your claim appeal. The risk being that if it’s shown to be functional that would weigh against the appeal.
We can dispute all we want about how much lateral load is on the camshaft (there is lateral load every time a cam lobe pushes a valve open…at 3,000 rpm that’s 1,500 times every minute). We can argue about how long a camshaft will run without lube, or how long it’ll last. We can discuss and dispute the process of materials transfer called “galling”. It’s all irrelevant. It seized. That’s the bottom line.
How much liability Honda will assume may depend on whether that oil pressure warning light works. I recommend you have them add that check to their assessment. Should it prove inoperative, then I think you have some valid arguement that that was at least a mitigating factor.
And I sincerely wish you the best of luck with your claim appeal.
I also suspect that at this point you’ve realized that you should have been checking your oil level occasionally via the dipstick. I have no doubt you will in the future.
Sincere best.
Thank you Mountainbike,
you must be a teacher, preacher or grandfather on the side. You have a nice way of explaining things.
You’ve hit all the points.
I don’t know why husbands don’t share information with their wives. Its not like I’m totally “mechanically illiterate”! I just took apart our toilet this week to extract a toy our son threw down which caused a clog! took it off the bolts and all!
anyhow, the reason I say that is because NOW the truth comes out.
My husband checked the oil week of Xmas because we were traveling for the holidays.
Anyhow, its all irrelevant now as Mountainbike said. And yes Mountainbike, I will be checking my oil more then 3k. My Facebook poll that’s currently on-going is showing oil checks at oil changes and only 1 response of monthly oil changes. That’s 22 facebook friend responses and its only been out there for an hour! IRRELEVENT I know…
So Jan. 27th was the last time. Maybe its possible the plug came loose over the last few weeks. Who knows.
Right now, the independent shop is taking it apart to expose the bearings and the crank. They have been instructed to take the cam out.
Anything else? I’m asking this board because Honda failed to tell the Auto Shop to do this in the first place, so now its Phase 2. I don’t want there to be a phase 3 or 4 if we can help it. Any comments?
Thank you.
I just have a simple brain and have to organize things to understand them. Then I take the organized thoughts and put them into writing.
Sincere best of luck with the appeal. And I mean that.
Most of us missed the part about the transfer from the Dealer to the independent shop…As Sargent Friday would have said: :Please Mam’e just the facts…
Like I said 100 posts ago, why not just install a new belt, button it up and see how it runs??
By tearing the entire engine apart, you have opened Pandora’s Box and are spending a lot of money, perhaps needlessly…
Not true, posts were removed by the mods.
would the cost of all that be on me or the repair shop who might have left the drain plug loose?
Cost of timing belt I mean.
Did anyone determine if the oil pressure warning light works? The driver is supposed to check the warning lights every time the car is started. It is also a good idea to walk around the car and look at the wheels and tires before you get in as well as to note what is on the pavement formerly under the car as you pull away.
Times have changed, hardly anyone does that stuff any more, and this is the result.
The only question I have is how did the oil suddenly drain out from a loose plug after three months?
Beads,
That’s what I want to know! I “think” the independent shop said the lights work, that was way in the beginning of all this mess so I will ask again.
I wouldn’t ignore lights on my dash. Why? So my car can break down on the highway with me and the kids in the back with 6 inches of snow? (i live in ohio so yes, that is like 6 feet)
I’ve heard from other responders that have said it is definitely possible for the oil to take 3 months to drain out. And that is the purpose to this thread. Is to get feedback from skilled mechanics since I’ve only had my own mechanic and honda to tell me what’s what.
Its getting tiresome hearing the same ole same ole when its not going to get me past the Mechanical questions I’m asking.
Mountainbike has the right idea.
Cam shaft seizes, belt breaks, lower end of engine continues to turn due to inertia. Damage will depend on how fast the engine was turning.
tardis, posts don’t usually get removed by the moderators. They get moved to the moderation queue when they are flagged as inappropriate. Sometimes they get reinstated after they are reviewed.
One of the easiest to fix reasons for the CEL is a missing or worn out fuel cap. However, if your fuel cap is fine, and the light stays on, you should get the error codes from the computer read ASAP. Many auto parts stores will do this for free.
A solid CEL is usually not an urgent matter, but you should get it checked out ASAP when you see it.
A flashing CEL is more serious. If you ever see a flashing CEL, you should pull over, shut off the car, and call for a tow truck.
Now that you have confirmed the car had plenty of oil a few weeks ago, that suggests the low oil might not have been the fault of the oil changer.
If the loss of oil was caused by some kind of road debris, you might be able to file an auto insurance claim, which might be more realistic than getting your extended warranty or the oil changer to pay. It is definitely worth considering.
I assume the mechanic could figure out how the oil got out? So loose drain plug is not only way oil will leak out of car…they need to look for holes someplace right?
I’m just not accepting the response of, “We don’t know why the engine seized”. There has to be a reason right??
Engine oil pressure specifications:
At 3,000 rpm : 71 psi (figure corrected later).
At idle (600 rpm): 10 psi.
Oil pressure warning light: ON at pressure below 10 psi (likely 8 psi).
Failure of engine oil pressure light to come ON? Defective wiring, lamp, or oil pressure sender, OR pressure still above 8 psi.
ADDED later: the minimum of 10 psi, at idle, is confirmed from three sources, including alldata.com.