oldschool: my post went right over your head. Re-read and post back, or don’t post if you can’t properly comprehend comments. You come across ignorant.
oldschool said, “Tires that are “babied” and the OP did not know to check they were mounted in the correct direction, either during the mounting process or check when the car was returned (like you do with an oil change) and taking any thing you value so much to Wallmart for work?”
This comment doesn’t make sense. She paid for a service that was done improperly, but you’re blaming it on her, at least your tone suggests that strongly. She’s not an automotive person. I don’t see how a non automotive person would clairvoyantly figure out how to tell if directional tires were mounted properly.
She’s a single Mom, for Christmas sakes. She probably doesn’t have time to research tire technology, etc. Plus, even if you baby your tires, it’s not bad judgement to take them to Walmart to have them mounted. This is unskilled labor, as opposed to, say, diagnosing a driveability problem.
Follow her advice and stay on point, please.
Makes absolute sense, you always check work such as tire mountings and oil changes after anyone works on your car, espically if it was done at one of the known lower end auto garages like Wallmart. You should also check these things even if they were done by the top mechanic in America.
Never did hear if you mentioned to the service writer that your tires were directional. It is a fact, be it a sad one, people miss things like correctly mounting a directional tire, you must stay one step ahead of problems like this and be PROACTIVE because reactive just gets your blood pressure up at best.
It is very important to keep a level of PERSONAL responsibilty in the make up of your vehicle maintiance and repair equation.
We are seeing a rash of people posting that since they paid for a service they have some how removed themselves from the loop of driving safely (or in this case without damage to their property) this will never be reality.
OH, there is an arrow on a directional tire indicating direction of forward rotation. My 12 year old nephew could figure that one out, IF told too pay attention and look for it, which is what the OP should have told the shop.
Thanks Karl,
I’ll be checking out your suggestion tomorrow.
“Makes absolute sense, you always check work such as tire mountings and oil changes after anyone works on your car, espically if it was done at one of the known lower end auto garages like Wallmart.”
This still doesn’t explain how the knowledge (of how to determine if directional tires are mounted properly) is supposed to pop into her head.
Walmart sells as many tires as a lot of volume tire stores. How do you know that on average, Walmart is worse for tire work than a tire store or independent garage? Again, I would never take a car to Walmart for a diagnostic problem. I agree with you there.
Cindy
You are going about this in the wrong way, IMHO. The mistake was made by the folks at the Walmart tire center, not by anyone at Michelin. If the manager of the tire center does not want to help you, then you need to kick things up to a higher level.
IIRC, the tire center at Walmart is a franchise operation. Even so, the local Walmart store manager may be able to exert some influence in order to protect the corporate name. I would suggest that you speak with the local Walmart manager in order to try to get his/her assistance/intervention with the tire center manager.
If the local Walmart manager is not able to help you, then you need to find out the corporate identity of the company that leases/operates the tire center. If you go up the food chain there, rather than at Michelin, you are more likely to get assistance.
If the local store manager cannot give you contact info for the company that runs the tire center, a letter to Walmart’s corporate offices in Arkansas may lead to the corporate identity of the people who run the tire center. When you are researching things and/or writing letters about this matter, just remember to refer to Walmart, not “Wallmart”.
Thanks everyone, I have been googling every thing you and I can think of. The more I learn here, the more I realize I still don’t know. Nite, Cindy
These “very expensive tires” don’t mean enough to you to actually file a case in small claims court? You don’t need to bluff Walmart; you can actually go to court. In small claims court, you don’t need a lawyer, and the degree of proof (of your claim) only has to be “reasonable”.
First, mounting directional tires backwards will NOT cause them to wear faster - and anyone who told you that doesn’t know what they are talking about. Perhaps that is why you can not get that in writing.
Second, studs tearing out is not the same as wear - and I do NOT think reversing the direction of rotation is the cause of that - something else is. The question is what.
So: Is the problem the wear - or is the problem studs tearing out? It’s important that you distinguish between the 2.
Is it possible that the problem is alignment caused uneven wear?
What you need to do is get someone who knows tires to look at them. If the wear is even, but rapid - well, that is not WalMart’s fault. If the wear is uneven, that’s not WalMart’s fault either. If the only problem is the studs tearing out, that’s not Walmart’s fault either.
I guess I just convinced myself that you are barking up the wrong tree - but to be sure, you need to have someone knowledgeable look at the tires.
It sounds like she is using 4 snow tires. I always thought that putting studded snows on the front was a no-no, since the back and forth steering action causes the studs to pop out. Was it the front tires that lost their studs?
Evidently you have never gone the “small claims court” route. I have, on one occasion a few years back. It costs money and is lengthy and did not get good results
That is not what I am asking for
Cindy, with respect, while mounting directional tires does cause hydroplaning and can (depending on the tires) cause reduced handling, I’m unaware of any data that says it causes increased wear.
Stud ripping out generally are a result of aggressive driving rather than having mounted tires backwards.
Without published test data or a manufacturer’s advisory saying that mounting directional tires backward causes excessive wear, no organization is going to feel bound to accept responsibility. Their only obligation will be as specified in the warranty.
To be honest, hearing that the studs have ripped out and the tires wearing very prematurely makes me wonder what kind of vehicle these are ona and if the driving has been aggressive. Directionally orented tires are generally used on vehicles capable of higher performance than normal, such as a Nissan 370Z for example. It’s pretty easy to tear up tires in vehicles like this.
If my suspicion is wrong, please accept my apologies. I’m only trying to get a complete picture of what’s going on. Studs tearing out with extreme wear are generally signs of aggressive driving.
A front end alignment was suggested by the Wal mart tech so I took the car to my regular maintenance guy who checked it out and said my car is fine, I don’t need one.
From what I know, if a car need a front end alignment the tires will wear to one side.
My tires tread was worn pretty much evenly in addition to the studs being pulled out.
Also, the tires I had on the car before the directionals were installed, had worn evenly, as well as, the new tires I bought to replace the ruined tires. All are wearing evenly
I did take the car to someone knowledgeable immediately. That’s who told me the tires were all on backwards,
Then, I went back to Walmart with a signed paper from the WELL KNOWN EXPERIENCED COMPANY signed by their trained tire technician, as well as, the guy who took me and showed me the tires were on backward.
Walmart had, by that time, sent my claim to “an independent Claims Management company” whom I sent the paper to. This paper was on the official WELL KNOWN EXPERIENCED COMPANIES PAPER with address and phone number and managers name…
The independent claims company guy said he didn’t care if I had that signed paper. He said " I called Michelin who told me it will not affect the wear of the tires" He didn’t know who he had talked to , evidently just some Joe Schmo who happened to answer the phone that day.
So, I asked, could I have that number? He gave it to me.
I called it.
Michelin verified my suspicion that indeed, directional tires mounted backwards WILL cause premature wear on the tires. So I asked her to send that info to the independent claims management co. She went and asked her supervisor if she could. The supervisor said “No, but she may call the independent claims management co. and relay that information to him” She did this. but
NOW that I finally had a supervisor from Michelin tire admit the truth about the effect on the tires,
I ASKED TO SPEAK WITH HIM
His name is Dale
Dale assured me that DIRECTIONAL TIRES INSTALLED BACKWARDS WILL INDEED CAUSE PREMATURE WEAR ON THE TIRES.
When I asked him if he could send ME or Walmart, or the INDEPENDANT CLAIMS CO THAT INFORMATION…HE SAID NO
When I asked why,… he hung up…
I have not been able to get through to the actual company who made the tires
so, I’m going with the company the independent claims co. wanted to use.
If they would have been good enough for him, there good enough for me
I finally have verification from a MAJOR tire company assuring me that I am right about my suspicions
No one else will return my e mails or phone calls…
I am so close and yet so far…If I could just get Michelins statement in writing…
I am willing to bark up any knowledgeable major tire brands tree that/who will answer me TRUTHFULLY
AND THEN
PUT IT IN WRITING
Thank you for your respectful answer.
It is important in my line of work, for me to always drive cautiously as my clients need, and receive police reports of my driving records. Often, taking an elderly client to the doctors is one of my duties. I have a perfect driving record. Not even a parking ticket.
The I have a Pontiac Montana, front wheel drive no crazy big engine but large enough to get my clients wheel chairs in and out of fairly easily.
I have used studded tires for 24 years and know that studs will slowly fall out as the tires wear.
These tires were fine, had been inspected at the beginning of the season, gauged, recorded and put on the vehicle.
No crazy driving…just little old me in my “mother mobile” trying to make an honest living caring for the elderly keeping them out of retirement homes as long as possible
Within one month about almost all the studs were torn out and the tread was worn off to a dangerous level
Yes, I was foolish to not have noticed this right away. Trust me I have learned my lesson not to trust my car to Walmart, or any other place for that matter. I have learned to check my tires often so please don’t start writing me about that. I am pretty smart but I don’t know everything about everything…
“Within one month about almost all the studs were torn out and the tread was worn off to a dangerous level”
First, please understand that I am not calling you a liar.
However, the idea that a tire’s tread could be worn down to a “dangerous level” within one month is…very difficult to believe. If you had said that this happened after 3 or 4 months, it would be much more believeable, especially if you drive several hundred miles per week.
The only possible explanation that I can come up with for very rapid tread wear is…gross underinflation or gross overinflation of the tires. Inflation issues could also lead to loosening of the studs.
If the tires were grossly overinflated, the tread wear would be in the center of the tread.
If the tires were grossly underinflated, the tread wear would be mostly in the outer edges of the tread.
Was the inflation pressure of these tires ever checked after they were installed?
Is it possible that somebody sabotaged your car by deflating the tires?
Well, clearly abuse cane be ruled out as a cause.
Does the tire wear fit any of the “abnormal” categories described in the attached link?
http://www.procarcare.com/includes/content/resourcecenter/encyclopedia/ch25/25readtirewear.html
Good point. This blog is getting very lengthy and I can understand that it is difficult for you to read everything I already wrote. As I said earlier, the tires had been used the season before, taken off in the spring, stored in my garage, checked and gauged by Walmart before re installing. They were no longer “new” tires but absolutely fine to use for this season as well as next.
The inflation of the tires was checked before being installed as well as when I came back with my complaint as well as at the other tire store where I had to buy the new ones to replace the ones that were ruined.
The purpose of this blog is not to figure out what happened and why. I already received that from Michelin.
The purpose of this blog is to help me find out how I can get what can happen in writing so that I may get my refund
You’ld think this would be easier than it is
I am presently working on the wording of the warranty angle to help get it in writing as to what happens when the tires are stored improperly.
Most people are not familiar with studded tires and how the damage happened much quicker because of their added traction
maybe closer to the feathering but, if the bushings were the problem wouldn’t that have also happened to my tires that were on the car before and after the winter tires were ruined?
The purpose of this blog is not to find out what happened
The purpose is to get the verbally documented reason for what happened in writing
Any anomolies should have shown up on the old tires too. But the fact that the wear was not normal is a clue to the early wearing out of the tires. And scrubbling would also rip studs out.
Many shops automatically do an alignment when a customer buys tires, often without telling the customer. Did WalMart do this with your car? If so, and the alignment now shows itself to be significantly out of tolerance, then you have a solid case against them for not only new tires but also a free alignment.
Post back. We’re ornery at times, but we do care.
Since Michelin seems unwilling to cooperate maybe another source such as National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) would.