There’s no reason to feel like a moron. My first thought also was a roofing nail. Whenever a major hailstorm hits around here the number of flat tires due to roofing nails goes up tremendously due to old nails falling off of loads of debris.
Just remember that the mechanic took care of the problem for less than $20 when he could have taken you for a new tire. And a moron would have never questioned the first shop’s demand that the tire be replaced without even taking a close look at it. You’re the winner on this @Mrbill
Good to see it was repaired and you did not need a new tire. Here is a reason why most shops wont do plugs any more, http://www.carabinshaw.com/unsafe-tire-repair-methods-persist-despite-strong-evidence-of-da.html. The $22M settlement http://www.tirereview.com/22-8-million-faulty-tire-repair-entirely-avoidable/
We were visiting my son and his family in Tennessee. My wife just happened to notice that there was a nail in the tire. It was about 11:30 on a Saturday morning and we were planning to make the 400 mile trip home the next day. I didn’t want to pull the nail out because the tire wasn’t flat. I drove to the nearest independent tire store. I got there just before they closed at noon. A technician dismounted the tire from the rim and found that the nail hadn’t gone through the tread. He pulled the nail, remounted the tire on the rim, inflated the tire and sent me on my way. There was no charge even though the man stayed after closing time. I tried to pay something but was told there was no charge since no tire repair was made.
I really appreciate all the great information I’ve learned here. Thanks folks.
That is great news about the repair. I think we have all done something like that and I would have also assumed the worst.
As for the liability, I am sure it is so drilled into anyone at a tire shop to not repair a tire like that that they took one look and said no way. People will sue about anything these days. I find this in my repair of computers with the various threats I get. Someone brings a computer in that doesn’t turn on. Often, they “turn on” but won’t boot up but to the illiterate, it doesn’t turn on. You diagnose the problem which involves the failure of the hard drive. All data/information is lost unless they are willing to spend thousands on a clean room data recovery. They blame me and want me to pay for the data recovery and threaten to sue.
Personally, I would probably repair a tire with damage in that location for myself. If I was a tire shop, I would NEVER touch that for a customer. In the computer world, I often see $10 aftermarket China special laptop power supplies bought off eBay that customers bring in with their computer. I see lots of failures, including motherboard failures (computer generally totaled), caused by these cheap and low quality power supplies. The OEM factory units cost around $75-100 so people opt for these cheap replacements. I will not work on one of these computers without first getting authorization to replace the power supply with a proper one. I have seen all kinds of problems from batteries that wouldn’t charge to laptops that only run at the slowest speed or don’t turn on at all fixed when the power cord is replaced with the proper one.
Everyone now has to sign a form with a mile of fine print on it. Each one of the lines/points on the form has a story behind it. There didn’t used to be a form, then it arrived with relatively large text, then it just got smaller and smaller as more was added. Unfortunately my experiences have caused me to look at everyone with a wary eye as for trying to take advantage of you until I get to know them.
“I understand that China has very few lawyers…we could borrow them a few thousand.”
I would prefer that we loaned them a few thousand lawyers.
I don’t think that we need to borrow any additional legal help.
I could think of a few judges we could send them too…
From SteveC76’s link:
—Various industry publications state that the greatest potential danger caused by a string plug repair is that this type of repair allows air and moisture to penetrate the body of the tire. The tire industry maintains that these elements seep in between the layers of the tire allowing the steel belts to degrade and causing the tire to deteriorate and corrode from within.—
Seep in against 30 PSI? How?
The pressure is held at the inner liner @auto-owner. And a patch applied on the inside to the inner liner would seal the pressure inside but the opening in the tread rubber would allow moisture to enter the steel belts. Likewise a rope plug might successfully seal the innner liner to hold air but not seal the break in the tread rubber. And if water gets into the fabric, especially the steel , it will cause damage to the integrity of the carcass.
Well, if the plug sealed at the inside, then water could seep in at the outside and get to some belts. But ‘could’ is a lot different than ‘will’.
Rod Knox
The pressure is held at the inner liner @auto-owner.
Indeed.
And a patch applied on the inside to the inner liner…
Reread the part I quoted.
…would seal the pressure inside but the opening in the tread rubber would allow moisture to enter the steel belts which will corrode and result in tread seperation similar to recaps seperating from truck tires.
I seriously doubt that enough water is likely to get past a plug to wreck belts during the working life of the tire.
The problem with rope plugs is the angle of entry often isn’t duplicated as the perpetrator can’t see the inside of the tire. This results in a new hole in the inner liner. The moisture is inside the tire that will enter the plies of the tire. How much moisture does it take to delaminate rubber from steel belts? I don’t know.
After preparing a wound inside a tire and applying adhesive sometimes air bubbles can be seen escaping from the wound. This is air that entered the plies of the tire when the nail or screw was in the tire. If the inner liner is not properly sealed there is risk of the tire plies separating.
I have known coworkers who use rope plugs that won’t acknowledge the cause of their separated tires.
Auto-owner said: “… I seriously doubt that enough water is likely to get past a plug to wreck belts during the working life of the tire. …”
Unfortunately, the facts say otherwise. I have examined lots of tires with separations around a puncture and concluded it doesn’t take much water to cause the steel belt to rust. Certainly the fact that the belt moves when the tire rotates aggravates the situation.
How many lawyers you need to help run a country properly brings out some surprising numbers.
The USA has by far the most lawyers, one for every 400 citizens!!! Japan, a much less violent country gets by with one lawyer for every 10,000 citizens! The public sentiment there is that Japan needs more lawyers to speed up legal administrative work! The same is probably true for China. In the US anyone can sue anyone else for practically anything. The woman who spilled hot Macdonald’s coffee into her lap and then sued would be considered a bad joke in most countries.
I agree that the US could permanently part with half a million lawyers and the country would probably function better.
There is lawyer here who is trying to get a class action lawsuit going for Toyota owners for POTENTIAL loss of resale value of their cars due to the accelerator problem. This guy understands the “deep pocket” approach!!
There is way too much overkill in many situations due to the threat of law suits. And I agree that for most drivers a plugged or patched tire would be worn out before degredation from moisture became a problem.
Rust, huh? Jeeze, you’d think the steel fibers weren’t encapsulated in rubber and the rope plug wasn’t saturated with rubber cement…
Sorry, my friend, but as much as I respect your knowledge and integrity I believe the problem is highly overblown by the tire industry. To really know whether the situation you described is actually probable (rather than simply possible), you’d need to dissect not only failed repairs but good plugged tires as well. And you’d need to do a high enough sample to be statistically significant. Only dissecting failed plugs proves the possibility of a plug repair failing, but not the probability. I’d also want to know the failure modes… all slow leaks?
Hmmmmm… according to doc’s numbers we could send China 300,000 lawyers and North Korea thousands too. That works for me. Lawyers cause more damage than weapons.
The tire factory here in northeast Mississippi until 1975 produced radial tires and the steel belts were produced in an air conditioned low humidity room and the steel fabric was dehydrated prior to calendering. There was apparently a significant failure rate for tires using steel belts prior to the dehydration procedures.
I was the unhappy owner of a Ford in the 70s with those Firestone 500 tires that exploded when stressed. They were all recalled because the belt design was flawed, I believe.
I’ll go off topic and talk about lawyers . . .
I live in Los Angeles, as you know
Anyways, several years ago, there was an article in the LA Times about a lawyer who earns his living filing BS lawsuits against various companies. The tactic is always the same. Everybody knows it’s BS, but the companies pay him to STFU and GTFO
One example . . . he sued a candle company, because the label did NOT say that candles produce smoke
I don’t know about you guys, but I consider such a person a parasite, with no redeeming values whatsoever. He’s breathing air, eating food, consuming resources. What useful function does he serve, other than to enrich himself, at the cost of others?
To keep this very slightly car-related. It was acknowledged that this guy repeats his BS tactic several times each year, thus multiplying his profits. He was already very wealthy at the time the article was written. Undoubtedly, he owned many luxury and/or sporty cars outright, due to his ill-gotten, but unfortunately legal, ways
I would be pleased if parasites like him drive their car too fast, lose control, and drive off the side of a steep cliff. And hopefully he doesn’t survive, so that he can’t somehow sue the car manufacturer or whatever municipality is responsible for the roads
