Any time I start wondering things like that about cars, I remember the guy I saw driving down the road a few years back with the frame so twisted that he was crabbed at a 15 degree angle to his direction of travel, and despite the rear wheels being so loose that the back end was weaving around like a drunken forklift, he had his phone at eye level, blocking his view, while he tapped merrily away ignoring everything around him.
Idiots are allowed to own cars and “maintain” them into a state of utter ruin and then run them down the road while eagerly searching for anything to pay attention to instead of driving. Now do we really want them tooling down the road with a propane/isobutane mix hanging off the front bumper of the car they’re about to ram you with because they’re too busy texting to drive?
Propane isn’t nitroglycerin. It still takes a fuel air mix for it to explode and most air conditioners don’t contain very much refrigerant. I’d worry more about the 20 gallons of highly flammable hydrocarbons in the car’s gas tank.
It pretty much takes an open flame or an electric spark to ignite propane or gasoline but lube oil can easily be ignited by coming into contact with a red hot exhaust manifold that won’t ignite gasoline or propane.
An open flame or a spark sounds like exactly what can happen when you get into a wreck. I know it’s not nitroglycerin - I’m not entirely ignorant.
But it’s also not non-hydrocarbon refrigerant either. At any rate, whether it makes sense or not, it’s illegal which is a really good reason why it’s not in my air conditioner.
Really Rick - The Heritage group. Talk about fake news.
The Ozone is an EXCELLENT example what we humans can do to help our environment. The fact that CFC’s were banned have caused it to heal.
Need to get your facts straight.
Funny how the Heritage Org - which is funded by the Koch brothers denies global warming…yet Koch’s own study to prove global warming doesn’t exist - actually proved it does exist and is mainly man made.
Even after their own study they still deny it. Why? - Because it’s in their best financial interest to deny it. Pure and simple. They’ve been funding junk science studies for decades. They’ve tried to influence scientists and teachers just to make more money.
You want to follow the people who deny global warming…follow the money. Oil and Gas are by far the biggest contributors in funding this junk science then any other group. Actually there is no other group.
And the global warming theory supporters are equally funded by special interest groups.
Not to mention that there’s a ton of hypocrisy from those who claim fossil fuels are killing the universe yet they are living large; and then some.
As for the Koch brothers I will say that if they offend you that much then quit eating. Hit them where it hurts; right in their fertilizer bank account.
Try again. The vast majority of global warming deniers are in the US…why? - because that’s where big oil is and money is. Global warming is supported world wide…NOT JUST IN THE US. There is no special interest funding in many countries - it’s illegal.
Exxon Mobil now believes that there’s global warming and man is causing it…yet there are still conspiracy theorists who think it’s all a hoax. Some people drink the cool-aide and can’t stop…even when everyone else did.
Mike, your knowledge of climate is just as extensive as mine; as in zero, zilch, nada, sans, non-existent, and less than none at all.
You must have missed the news about Obama’s rep in Paris (Tom Karl, the head of NOAA climate data) fudging the numbers to show the current cooling trend as not existing… After getting found out he resigned when some NOAA whistleblowers spoke up.
Now he can (quote, “not worry about staying up late to watch football”.
The original data showing the “hockey stick” curve of warming since the start of the industrial age was “massaged” to say the least. It completely ignored the Medieval Warming when Western Europe was balmy, nor the little ice age in the 1500s and 1600s.
All those famous Dutch paintings of the 1600s showing people skating on the canals were great but now that only occurs 2-3 weeks a year.
So the climate has fluctuated greatly throughout the ages and MAY have been warming in the last 20 years. Don’t forget the warnings of a coming Ice Age in the early 70s!!! It never happened.
Al Gore, the UN Climate Change committee and Canada’s David Suzuki can be accused of outright lying as well as distorting the truth. Both Gore and Suzuki have benefitted greatly financially from their scaremongering.
So are we warming up? Could be but man’s contribution is only part of the total. Should we reduce our energy consumption? Of course, but not to the detriment of our living standard nor do we owe billions of dollars to the third world, as the UN would have us pay. Such money would largely go to waste, as have many foreign aid donations.
I have many “authoritative” books on Climate Change in my personal library. Three in ten contradict the conventional wisdom. A good book to read is “The Deliberate Distortion of Climate Data”. It’s quite an eye opener. Also read “The Confessions of a Green Peace Dropout” by Patrick Moore, one of their founders and the only Qualified scientist in the whole organization!
I will admit, I have found a r134A Vehicle with good A/C. Maybe the systems are undersized in some cars.
I will say When we had our Prius we loved the electric AC compressor, no cycling on and off, no loss of power when it was on.
Having a compressor clutch slamming on and off at 7.5k rpm seems like a dumb idea to me.
R-12 was a Great, Non toxic, extremely efficient refrigerant. I think that’s something everyone can agree on. Its a FACT.
Maybe it causes global warming, maybe it doesn’t… If it does you can depend on your R12 equipped car to keep you ice cold even on the hottest of days. And your R22 unit being run by cheap, clean, efficient and reliable coal fired power to keep your house ice cold.
I have found that you must have the A/C on recirculate to get the best performance out of it, now back in the day people all smoked and there was always fresh air being drawn in to give people fresh air while , and the old r-12 systems could keep up. No way today’s vehicles can. Back then people arrived to their destination feeling refreshed by the cool air and calmed by a good smoke. Nowadays people are at each other throats in traffic, I wonder if there is a correlation between modern behavior and poor ac in cars and people not smoking as much.
Another thing is you could drive to the mcdonalds in your land barge, with the ac on full blast, a good tune on your 8 track, and converse with the friendly truckers on your factory CB radio all while enjoying a smooth quality smoke like a pall mall. You would go thru the drive thru that a land barge could easily navigate and get a hamburger in a Styrofoam container that two compartments, one to keep the meat warm, and one to keep the lettuce and whatnot cool. Does anyone remember those? It seems like CFCs have done a lot more to help our standard of living than hurt it.
Heck the first A/C equipped vehicles ran the compressor no matter what, The only way to turn it off is to take the belt off.
Nothing you said applies to all r134 cars. The only time I turn recirculate on in either my Acura or my converted MR2 is when a smoker is nearby and I want to close off the cigarette smoke intake. Both of them blow very cold with fresh air. The MR2 actually blows colder than the Acura, which according to everything the r12 enthusiasts have been saying in here should never happen because it was converted from r12 to r134. I generally can’t run it at max cold for more than 5 minutes without getting too cold.
As I said earlier in the thread, if you don’t like the air conditioning in your r134 car, you should at least consider the possibility that it’s because your air conditioner is poorly designed, irrespective of what kind of refrigerant it uses.
Lead acetate used to be a very common product. It tastes sweet - in fact it used to be called lead sugar, and was used to sweeten foods and drinks. And it was a very common ingredient in makeup.
So, by your logic, lead makes things taste better and makes women prettier, which improves our quality of life, and therefore despite the minor inconvenience that lead is a poison that kills people, we should still be using it because improving your momentary quality of life supersedes any unpleasant consequences, namely because they aren’t happening yet and should therefore be ignored.
Personally, I don’t subscribe to that brand of “logic.”
I don’t know if you ever smoked . . . I did, by the way, but I quit a long time ago . . . but you could either start smoking, and/or take it up again, and let us know if your behaviour has improved
I am not talking about ingesting or breathing gases from CFCs, I am talking about all the products that we used(d) that had CFCs in them. They posed little to no health risk.
Here you go again, just because you disagree. Here is another person who speaks of the superiority of r12 over r134a. He may not be a top expert per say but he knows what he is talking about.
Here is a Top refrigeration expert explaining how good R12 was. He alludes to the fact that it contributed to the ozone hole, but we know that’s impossible because just like sf6 gas, its heavier than air. So unless we shot cans of r12 up into space with rockets, R12 isnt going to get up there.
So you post something to bolster your point from a guy who acknowledges that it hurt the ozone layer, but you choose to believe that he’s wrong about that while being right about everything else.
As long as you insist on cherrypicking data to support your own unfounded conclusions, there’s no hope in continuing a discussion with you.
This whole thread is absurd. It’s like a scenario in which you’re warned not to go outside because there’s a bear, and then everyone in the house looks out the window and sees a bear, and they look at security camera footage and they see a bear, and so no one goes outside.
… And then you stand up and proclaim that nobody got eaten and therefore the bear was faked.
Your statements tilt at the windmills of reams of scientific evidence. Further discussion with you on this matter is utterly pointless.
