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General Discussion
21

It is most likely regular split phase 240V 60 or 100 or 200 Amp service. If you have 20 Amp 120VAC circuits in the garage already, you could put in a 20 Amp NEMA 5-20 outlet and the EV will charge at 16 Amps instead of 12 Amps. You have to purchase the NEMA 5-20 plug adapter for the EV. It’s would be like 4 MPH instead of 3 MPH depending on the size of the EV. That’s 48 miles per 12 hours of being parked at home.

If you have two different circuits in your garage already and they happen to be on opposite phases, you can get 240V by plugging in two extension cords in the two different outlets and plugging the EV in to the hot on each one by putting the extension cords right next to each other. The ground would need a separate wire connecting in to the ground on one of the cords. I don’t know of any EV that won’t work on 120/240 like a computer AC adapter will.

22

In many homes it isn’t the lack of 220, it is the 60 or 100 amp service that is the limiting factor. Gas stove, water heater unloads the electric. An AC unit can easily draw 50 amps of a 100 amp service leaving at best 20 amps to service an EV so that loads don’t exceed 80%.

Many places require upgrades beyond 100 amps when AC is retrofitted.

23

I think its likely that the majority of homes in your state have 220 service, simply because most FL homes have electric stoves. I imagine that the same would hold true for other areas that use so few gas stoves–except, of course for the homes that use propane for cooking.

The percentage of gas stoves in Florida is 8%, one of the lowest in the country.

Here are the five states with the lowest share of homes that use natural gas for cooking.

State Share of homes with gas stoves Share of homes with electrical stoves
1 Maine 7% 74%
2 Florida 8% 92%
3 North Dakota 11% 89%
4 Hawaii 11% 85%
6 Vermont 11% 64%
24

Back in the early 1960s, I rented rooms in two different houses in Carbondale, Illinois. Both houses only had two wire 110 volt service. One house ran on one 20 ampere fuse. All worked well until the landlord updated from a gravity furnace to a forced air gas furnace. When the blower motor on the furnace would come on while the refrigerator was on, the fuse would blow. The landlord wanted to put a penny behind the fuse. I solved the problem with a slow blow 20 ampere fuse that would absorb the current draw when the blower motor or the refrigerator would start up
The stove and water heater were gas. The slow blow fuse even allowed the Maytag wringer wash machine to run.
Interestingly, the 21" black and white console television pulled much more power than today’s big flat screen televisions. Today’s appliances are much more efficient, yet we have 200 ampere or more electric service in most homes.

25

Back in the early ‘60s, I was a guest for a few nights in my Aunt & Uncle’s home. They pointed out that there was a window A/C unit in their guest room, and because my parents’ home lacked A/C, this was a real luxury for me. That room also had a color TV, but if you turned it on when the A/C was running, the fuse would blow. The electric consumption of home appliances back in The Good Old Days was incredibly high by modern standards.

The last apartment that my family rented (before they bought our first home) had ONE 15 amp circuit. I recall that when my mother used her electic iron, the picture on our B&W TV would shrink by a few inches.

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26

Clearly correct. Nat gas is not readily available. Some install propane for stoves, pool heaters and whole house generators. Since we so rarely need heat, in the southern 3/4s electric heat in the air handlers. In the north 1/4, heat pumps are the norm.

Most have 160 amp and up service . My home has 200 amp, 220v service. More than enough for a 30 or even 50amp EV charger and still enough for AC at night.

27

I am impressed by the energy saving promotions the electric utility company offers businesses and other organizations here in East Central Indiana. About nine years ago, my wife and I were doing our 2 mile walk around the basketball arena at our local university, because it was raining and we couldn’t walk outside. A crew was changing out the light fixtures from flourescent to LED. I struck up a conversation with the foreman of the crew. He told me that the power company was giving a big financial incentive to the university to convert to LED lighting. I asked if the financial incentive would apply to a church. The foreman thought it would and he was so kind he went out in the rain to his truck and brought me the information. I was able to take advantage of the offer. Each T12 fluorescent 4 foot tube I removed the electric company gave us $6. I was able to buy replacement LED tubes for $6.95. I rewired each fixture to bypass the ballast coil. I changed out over 200 tubes In addition, I was invited and attended a free breakfast hosted by the power company. I was really impressed by the incentives offered to businesses to upgrade to power saving measures.
I don’t know if our church has saved electrical energy with the replacement of flourescent lighting, but it has saved my energy. I was replacing a half dozen or so tubes every month and often having to replace the ballast transformers. In the last 9 years, I haven’t had to replace a single LED tube.
In the basketball court, the LED lighting can be turned off with just a spotlight on the flag when the National Anthem is played, and comes back instantly to full brilliance when switched on. With the previous lighting, the initial current draw was so great that it took 5 minutes for the lighting to come up to full brilliance.
The electric company is upgrading the infrastructure all over our area. I am certain it is anticipating the change to electric vehicles.

28

Well, that is all a moot point now, TVs do not have a Big Picture Tube… And back the '60s most homes only had one TV. Today, most homes have multiple TVs (bedrooms - kids and parents, kitchen, den, living room, family room, etc…). For instance, it’s just the wife and me, and we have five TVs (Kitchen, my office, her office, the family room, and the my shop–not one is anything special, just LCD models…). Granted, usually only one, maybe two TVs are on at any one time (but as I write this, they are all off…). Our home is wired for 240-Volt 300-Amp service. The A/C unit, the dryer and the stove are electric, the furnace and fireplace are gas…

Now, both neighbors on each side of me are TV crazy. Both have two kids, one has preteens and the other has high schoolers, and they all have over seven TVs and the one with teenagers has a large high-end unit on his deck. It’s like watching a drive-in movie from the back row but the sound is better… L :grinning: L

Well, I’ll cut this off now and go watch Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy…

29

But, what about The Good Old Days, when everyone was happy, and healthy, and prosperous, and cars lasted forever, and everything was better than in the present day?
:smirk:

30

The best thing about the good old was our AGE ad the feeling of mortality. :grinning:

31

Yup!
Back then, we thought that we were invincible, even with the high (by modern standards) death toll from car crashes, Polio, Cancer, Heart Disease, and other maladies.

When I was in elementary school, one of my friends was hospitalized for over 2 months because he contracted Encephalitis. Nowadays, he would be treated as an outpatient, with fairly rapid recovery. Luckily, our age teaches most of us that we aren’t invincible, and that taking precautions is prudent.

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32

How can you even question my feelings about “The Good Old Days”? How many times have I dragged the members down my memory Lane with my stories of days of old?

Oh, how I miss them, even those temperamental cars that may or may not start, that used too much gas and too much oil…

How my friends and I raced home to watch our Black and White TVs after the Walter read the news and then came on the westerns: Sugerfoot, Johnny Yuma, Raw Hide, Wells Fargo, the Rifleman, Gunsmoke, Bronco, Cheyenne, Lawman, and so many more…

Our parents did not mind a bunch of boys all hooting and hollering up in the living room. Our parents all knew the parents of our friends and they did not mind us spending our time doing this as they then knew where we were and what we were doing…

Those were the days when the boys all sang the theme songs form the shows… Who remembers, “Swamp Fox, Swamp Fox, Tail on his Hat, Nobody knows where the Swamp Fox’s at…”

"Mom, I’m going to Ricky’s (or Mike’s or Freddy’s, or Steve’s or Matty’s and on ) to watch “Sugerfoot” or whatever. And our Moms never feared for our safety…

33

Less than 5% of cars on the road in US are EV’s. I don’t know where you live, but around here there have been massive increases building of Solar and Wind farms to anticipate the increase in the Grid.

34

Just a heads up on the req’d wire size if you decide to run that wire. Read an article in Fine Homebuilding about this issue recently. It said the electrical code for some reason allows a slightly smaller wire size (smaller diameter) between the pole and the house, compared to a wire from one section of the house to another for the same current.

35

Yes, I will agree that you have dragged us on those lengthy verbal journeys.
:unamused:

36

Almost 200 coal fired electric generators are scheduled to be shut down units closing between now and 2030 in 33 states, and another 55 units have announced closure dates between 2031 and 2040 across 17 states. Besides the environmental concerns of the plants, the closures also reflect the aging of the U.S. coal fleet.

So there will be a significate reduction in electrical production based on this…

Then you have to consider hydroelectric dams, many of them are aging, many are barely operating at all due to droughts and many are under fire by environmentalist who want to return the waters to their natural flow…

And finally, Nuclear Power production, 36 Nuclear Plants have sut down over the last 30-years due to aging, and the license on almost 75 plants were extended due to the lack of construction and there is nothing else to make up the loss…

And only one is under construction, the Vogtle Unit 3 at the Alvin W. Vogtle Electric Generating Plant in Georgia, It recently started operation (I think…)…

Now, getting back to droughts, the Hoover dam provide most of the electrical needs for Arizona, California, and Nevada. And the water to supply the dam is Lake Mead which is at its lowest lever ever. They are in discussion to cut back the electrical output of the dam to conserve the water to supply the water needs the people…

So, the build up of Solar and Wind farms ain’t to anticipate the increase in the Grid for the EVs, it’s to maintain the status quo…

37

EXCELLENT. We have ONE coal fired plant here in New England. So that’s not going to affect our electric needs. Many of those coal fired plants are NOT shutting down, but being converted to Natural Gas.

We only have 2 Nuclear plants in New England, and they are not shutting down any time soon.

No drought problem here. Hydro plants are doing fine.

Most of our power comes from Nuclear, followed by Natural gas and a small percentage from hydro…with Solar and wind now on the rise.

So I stand by my statement that Solar and Wind is for the increased demand expected here in New England.

38

Obviously, you still need an electrician for the installation of that 220 line, but this might make the total cost more affordable. At Costco…

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39

Your two nuclear power plants – Seabrook Station in New Hampshire, built in 1990, and the two-unit Millstone plant in Connecticut, built in the 1970s are opiating on borrowed time…

Both plants are having ageing issues and as time passes, more problems will arise…

So, I guess, Joe’s plan to eliminate all gas appliances (stoves, dryers, furnaces, etc…) will not eventually affect the big, really big users like power plants.

And if you have not been keeping abreast of the situation of New England’s electric grid, you might want to do a bit more research… the Mystic Generating Station, is closing down and the nearby supply facility, the Everett Marine Terminal, that supplies fuel for that plant and provides the fuel to heat homes may shut down as well since the loss of the big user, Mystic, is closing they may not be able to afford to stay in business… Just saying, “it’s thin ice…”

Could the LNG plant be closing along with Mystic generating station? – Everett Leader Herald.

And you seem to think that in the winter time those snow covered solar panels will help heat your home in winter, well you better hope the wind is really strong…

Lest we forget the greedy needs of New York City… Do you really thnk that all the electricity generated in New England stays in New England or that all the electricity need by New England is generated in there.

I grew up in Up State New York, I remember those wonderful, beautiful snow storms when the large flakes fell so slowly blanketing the ground, the trees, and everything else, shutting down business and schools. So how will those snow covered panels get their sun light and when there is no wind to power those wind farms…

Well, I guess you will have to get your power from outside New England… Lucky You…

40

I guess that the solar panels mounted on virtually every power pole by the local utility must have some sort of non-stick coating, because they seem to stay clear on snowy days. They somehow manage to look like this 12 months of the year.

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