@shadowfax “I will very carefully research and try to find a car that does not have vin-bricked parts that meets my needs.”
Isn’t every body control module (BCM) VIN bricked because it keeps track of miles (odometer) and pre-accident information?
@Triedaq - Good thing it’s not a modern day GM Ignition switch.
The keyless ignition in my wife’s Lexus is several magnitudes more reliable then those.
@MikeInNH I know about the problems with today’s GM ignition switches. I liked the old style where the ignition switch’s only function was to turn on and off the ignition. I had no problem with a system where the starter was,activated by ameans different than twisting the key over to the start position. As I said earlier, my 1947 Pontiac and,1950 Chevy truck had a foot pedal to activate the starter. My 1948 Dodge had a,push button to activate the starter. My 1954 Buick was stated by turning the ignition switch to the on position either from the lock position or off position, and then stepping down on the accelerator pedal. When the accelerator was about 1/3 of the way down, the starter was activated. As soon as the engine started, the starter automatically disengaged. None of these systems ever gave ,problem. The Buick had gone 160,000 miles when I sold it. I knew the history of the car since it had belonged to my parents before I bought it from them. The Buick never had the head or pan off the engine and never used oil. Like an idiot, I sold the car in 1965 and bought a,1965 Rambler Classic. In the 100,000 miles I owned the Rambler, I had to replace the ignition switch 3 times and I was told that that was a Rambler weakness. I did not have a heavy key ring–just the ignition and trunk key. I never saw the advantage to the start switch being combined with the same ignition switch. I never suffered undue fatigue stepping on the starter pedal to get the car underway.
I like truly functional features on my recent cars. I wouldn’t want a car without air conditioning, for example. However, I never had a problem unlocking the door or ignition with a key.
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Another example where modern systems are better are the electronic ignition systems if you ask me. Although I have seen failures, these are a lot less problematic than the systems of old. Also, materials in general have gotten better. Tires last longer and grip better, plugs last 100,000 miles, engines seem to outlast the rest of the car without using oil, etc. Modern fuel injection allows cars to start easily in cold temps, pollute less, get better mileage, etc. Lubricants and other fluids last much longer and require less frequent changes. These are the kind of advances I like.
I am not so happy with all the electronic navigation systems and such that are built into the radio. The do everything from turn the AC on and off to playing music, getting directions, etc. I see people having to ask the car several times to turn on the AC. What is wrong with a slide lever or knob? I am sure the electronic parts are more reliable underneath but when they are an inconvenience, forget it. In the old days it was better to get the cheap factory radio rather than the $500-1000 upgrade as you could by a nicer radio for much less than that. These systems are basically part of the car and I don’t see how one would replace one.
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“plugs last 100,000 miles . . .”
Unless it’s a Ford Triton 2V or Ford Triton 3V, up through 2008 
After that, Ford changed their plug design again, for the better, from the look of it
“engines seem to outlast the rest of the car without using oil . . .”
I feel there are many designs, which are the exception to that rule. And a lot of them use large quantities of oil, DESPITE the owner’s excellent maintenance, driving habits, checking oil level, etc.
“Tires last longer and grip better . . .”
Well, that depends. We all know many factory tires are a compromise, don’t have excellent grip and don’t last very long. Many of you guys can attest to that, because you all say when you buy the next set of tires, it’s better in just about every way. Factory tires are a compromise, biased more towards fuel economy, versus tire life and grip. At least that’s how I understand it
I feel that all of the things you said are generally true, but there are plenty of exceptions. And I don’t think you meant it to be a blanket statement, anyways . . . ?
Definitely not. There are some bad engines like the flawed ones discussed on other threads with oil use and other issues. Agreed on the Ford Triton plugs. Part of that problem was the heads and not the plugs although maybe the plugs were part of the problem. I know several people who have launched them. They say it sounds like a gunshot and then your engine starts running really bad. One guy put in a couple of inserts with a new narrower plug and it seems fine now. I have no idea how long that will hold.
Yes, overall cars and their components last longer. I understand that 10 years / 100,000 miles used to be something major. Now most cars can do this, even many with the exploding engines and the like.
Also it seems like rust proofing has gotten better. My dad said that it was very rare for any cars older than a few years not to have rust back in his day. Now they go 10 years in the rust belt before they really start to get eaten away.
I understand it was just metal painted on the visible surfaces. The backsides were just bare metal waiting to rust away on many cars.
And that makes me think of paints. A car that is washed and cared for can still look good after many years. I have seen improvements in paint quality even in my lifetime.
Agreed on the Ford Triton plugs.
Hey, it took a lot of engineering to design a head that will spit some plugs out yet hold onto others such that they can’t be removed without breaking.
I think there are 1 or 2 plugs in these that like to blow while others hold on like nothing else. One of my friends has several family members with variants of that engine. They are die hard Ford people. It seems like a certain cylinder is always the problematic one for them.
Personally, I’d take the 3valve over the 2valve
I have an otc tool that will increase the odds of plug removal without breakage. And the lisle tool works pretty good to remove them, if they do break
I usually time it, so that I remove the coils, clean out the spark plug tubes with a vacuum cleaner and compressed air, and let some penetrant wick its way down the threads, while I eat lunch
A few weeks ago, I removed all 10 on a 6.8 3 valve, without breaking one
There’s nothing really wrong with the 2 valve . . . if you don’t mind installing time-serts
Me, given the choice . . . I’ll take removing broken plugs over installing time-serts, any day 
I looked up the broken plug problem and realize I may have an impacted truck. I have a 1997 F250 Light Duty with the 4.6L. This is the oddball one with the 7 lug rims for those who know. Mine is the REALLY odd one with the VIN 6 for the engine which I understand there aren’t very many of. This might be a good thing in this case. Also, this truck is my firewood and winter beater truck. It has 265,000 miles so odds are any of the problems with this were fixed long ago with a past owner.
I did have the plugs replaced once. I was planning to replace them once myself and had all the plugs, wires, etc. to do the job. I went to try to remove a plug and it wouldn’t budge. It was like I couldn’t get a socket down on the plug so I shined a light down and there was like an L shaped piece of metal down in the plug well. I said screw it and drove it to a mechanic with all the parts in the passenger seat.
Anyway, he said it needed to be done and that it was a pain to get that part out. He ended up grinding off part of a socket to get it in there and got it loose, then pulled it out with a magnetic probe. He didn’t seem to have issues getting the others out. I just picked the one with crap down the spark plug well to start on first.
Anyway, I was wondering if using an impact wrench on these engines would help with the problem. It seems that might break the plugs loose without issues of the threads coming with them.
Some guys have told me they’ve had good luck removing plugs on Triton engines with an impact wrench
But some of those same guys don’t have much credibility in my book
For instance . . .
They didn’t know that there were 2V, 3V and apparently even 4V Tritons. They couldn’t even definitively tell me what engine they were working on
They also recommended removing plugs on a hot engine. As far as I know, it was not recommended to remove plugs from an aluminum head, if it was hot. It seems that the had never heard of this
We still have a few 1997 Ford F250 light duty trucks in our fleet. They’re actually running pretty well. I can’t swear to it, but I think ours have the 5.4 liter V8
I’ve run into frozen plugs in all types of engines. Sometimes an impact will shake them out without bringing the threads with the plugs but that’s not a given.
We had a poorly running Subaru into the shop once (4 cylinder of course) and I spent over 2 hours removing the spark plugs from that engine. A twisted 3/8 extension, broken 3/8 ratchet, a twisted drive on a Craftsman 1/2" breakover, and 4 impact wrenches later the plugs were out along with most of the threads from every hole.
Those plugs had just been installed the day before by one of those quick tune facilities. The engine requires long reach plugs and this one had 2 long reach plugs of different manufacture and 2 short reach plugs; also made by different companies.
Apparently the guy at the quick tune joint had cross-threaded every one of them and rammed them home with a 3/4" drive breakover and cheater bar.
They felt like they had been heli-arced in place…
“Those plugs had just been installed the day before by one of those quick tune facilities.”
Sounds like the customer got what they payed for 
brakes shouldn’t cost 5 grand to replace. that’s highway robbery. contact your senators, state and u.s. contact the media, local and national. let ford know what you are doing. cc everything you write to your reps and newspapers, etc. to them. be sure to make it clear to them (politely, professionally) that you have no intention of walking away. this is a heavyweight fight. the car business is competitive like never before. if ford begins to sense a lot of bad publicity is headed their way, they may get you rolling, and stopping, before you know it and for very little money.
brakes shouldn’t cost 5 grand to replace.
Welcome to the future McFly, expensive ABS/stability control hydraulic control units have been around for more than 15 years. These units on late model vehicles generally cost between $2,000 and $4,000. I don’t think your senators can do anything about this. Choose a more common vehicle and the cost will be lower.
(“can’t, programmed with the VIN, reprogramming doesn’t work”).
“The only thing that really gets my goat here is the bit about “the module is VIN specific and can’t be reprogrammed.” If that’s true and his dealership isn’t just BSing him to trick him into giving them too much money, then I think there should be sanctions against Ford for that. They’re effectively guaranteeing future profits by bricking perfectly good used parts on purpose and for no legitimate reason. That’s absurd.”
preventing the reprogramming of the module is a technique to make windfall profits which is illegal and immoral and ford will pay one way or another. future sales of their hybrids will plummet.
ford knew about the exploding pinto and did zip until forced to. iaccoca said they only worried about the money and ultimately, they lost
“General Motors Corporation was ordered today to pay $4.9 billion to six people severely burned when the fuel tank of their 1979 Chevrolet Malibu exploded after a rear-end collision.” would have saved billions by fixing the problem.
when consumers realize that ford knew about the catastrophic brake failures and restricted access to affordable replacement parts, they will stop buying their products and they will lose again.
contact your senators, state and u.s.
Since your senators and the feds are the ones who say you must have ABS and Stability Control on your car in the first place, they’re not likely to be much help. Or maybe they will, since they are politicians. Let’s see, they can force carmakers to put equipment on all cars whether people want it or not, and then they can demand that carmakers service that equipment when the customer is unwilling or unable to pay.
Sounds like government at its finest.
“preventing the reprogramming of the module is a technique to make windfall profits which is illegal and immoral and ford will pay one way or another. future sales of their hybrids will plummet.”
Every manufacturer has modules and components which are “married” to the car through the vin, and can’t be used in any other vehicle
So the entire industry is a bunch of criminals . . . assuming you can PROOVE that what they’re doing is in fact illegal. I disagree. And I bet most courts of law also would.
By the way, hybrid and ev sales in general are down, because gasoline prices are currently low. NOT because of public outrage due to modules which can’t be reused on other vehicles.
The whole industry needs to “pay one way or another”
If you feel that way, the solution is simple. Don’t buy ANY new automobiles. In fact, don’t even buy any older vehicles with “vin-bricked” modules. In fact, get rid of your current vehicles which fit that description
Tell all of your friends, relatives, coworkers, etc., to do the same
Punish the entire industry
