2006 Honda CRV Rear Brake Issue. (Horribly uneven wear)

Maintenance/Repairs
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21

I would not put much credence into what you’re told by Honda corporate. In all honesty, almost all of the people there (as with other car makers) are paper pushers and have no clue about how things are done and should be done in the shop.

I’ve worked in shops that were backed up for weeks at a time (yay for the paycheck) and being interrupted 28 times a day (boo for the paycheck) is one of those things that can pxxx the mechanic clean off.
Point being that if they’re that busy then you’re not the only person to approach them during the course of the day and ask for a little consideration.

22

OK4450, I fully agree with you, but the dealer should not charge $80 just to read a code. That $80 should cover full diagnostics and I agree that you can’t pull a mechanic off a job for that on an on demand basis.

But at the same time, I don’t see why the “service advisors” can’t be given a code reader and do a free code read. There would be advantages to do this. For one thing, some codes have very simple diagnostics and $80 is a money maker where others can take several hours to run all the diagnostics. If a customer had one of the more difficult ones, then the service advisor could tell them that a full diagnostics would be something else, like $160 where a simple one would be $80.

If a counter person at AutoZone can read codes, surely a service advisor could be trained as well.

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Try reading the original post Twin…I never said I expected free I said they refused to do it. I dont know what shops you have worked in ok4450 but thank god I’ve had nothing to do with them. I have friends in both ford and chevy shops and jamily in the GM plant in GM and they were shocked when I posted the story on my feed. ALL manufacturers say that if your light comes on head to a shop. I did that and was basically told to F-off. Any shop that shows such disrespect looses my business…period. If you don’t like that then I invite you to move on.

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I’ve since bought a code reader and it wasnt a cheap one. It doesnt just read the code it has a database and gives you the code and a couple lines about what the code means based on the make and model. I don’t even have to google the codes anymore. Unfortunately there were no codes with this issue. That’s partly why I think the ABS is unlikely. I have the caliper but I’m doing 14 hour days so havent had much time to further troubleshoot this. Hoping this weekend might provide me some time.

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I understand the problem for the mechanic but at the GM dealer, I have rarely had to wait depending on the issue. Maybe wait till afternoon or something. For the Indi guy, man I had the car towed and left a note the night before and next day by 10:00 its done. I like that. We changed Acura dealers, not totally because of the shop but in the back of my mind anyway, from several delays in service. I needed a new tire and they couldn’t put it on until Thursday-it was Monday. I had a battery sensor throw a message and couldn’t get me in for a week. Then it was come back in two weeks after the part came in. We’re talking $40,000 and they can’t do a 15 minute tire change? Goodyear took care of it in an hour and I didn’t even buy the tire from them.

Its the old saw I guess. Too few checkouts and you lose customers but too many and you lose in labor costs. Trainees or summer help can check codes or change tires and then go consult with a mechanic on the issue. Personally I think the mechanic should just be hourly with a performance premium. Working flat rate seems the same as having a bunch of independent contractors in the back. I guess as the world looks to me anyway.

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@keith

“That $80 should cover full diagnostics”

Us mechanics don’t work for peanuts

If your $80 covered everything . . . including overhead and what not . . . then you know the mechanic is getting paid peanuts

I’m NOT okay with that

You want a free code scan, go to autozone, or borrow a buddy’s code reader

Or buy your own code reader, or learn the skills to turn wrenches professionally. That way, you won’t always be at somebody else’s mercy

Most shops have labor rates well over $100/hr nowadays, so for $80 you shouldn’t expect a “full diagnosis”

You pay cheap, you should expect cheap quality labor and diagnosis

I’m sorry if I refuse to see things your way, but I feel pretty strongly about this

Customers seemingly always want to haggle about the costs, or want things for free. And the mechanic is often the one getting the shaft, in the end

I wouldn’t dare show up at a business and say “Drop what you’re doing. I’m cutting to the front of the line. I’m paying peanuts, and I expect you to be happy about it.”

Again . . . sorry if I came across as gruff

But I’m not going to take it lying down :trollface:

Give the service advisor a code reader, and I see bad things happening. They’ll probably come up with all sorts of misdiagnosis, and the customer will buy and install parts, based on that. And they’re going to be pretty upset, when they spent $300 on parts, based on the service advisor’s misguided attempts at being helpful. If you don’t know what you’re doing, a scan tool WILL lead you down the wrong path, and/or you’ll take the shotgun approach

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Keith…thank you…some one gets it!!! I never wanted to have immediate service done. I never wanted a free full diagnostics…really I didn’t even really want a free code read. Figured it might cost me $20 bucks. But $80 for a simple code read…and then telling me that they couldn’t even do the read because they were to busy??? Seriously?? I didnt even care if they told me the code it was throwing. All I wanted was a “this is not serious, it can wait, make an appointment” OR “This is serious, you shouldnt drive it” Giving EITHER ANSWER would have resulted in an appointment with them. The only difference would have been whether I rented a car or not. Instead they refused to help in any way shape or form and pissed me off. All that did was send me home furious and first thing on monday I went to the parts store and had them read it. So instead of the dealer I got a free read, purchased an O2 sensor and a really nice code reader. I figured that the cost of those two things would have come roughly to what I would have spent at the shop so why not get the reader so I wouldnt have to deal with them again. Havent regretted it for one second. I’ve saved friends and co-workers thousands by doing free reads.

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db4690 Seriously…Why can’t people read these days? I NEVER SAID I WANTED FREE. The $80 was NOT for full diagnostics…it was for a CODE READ and they refused to do that even if I had paid the $80 because they were “to busy.” A code read takes LESS THEN 5 MINUTES and for $80 a US shop cant take 5 minutes or less to do a code read and merely say whether its serious or not? At $80 freaking dollars for a code read of 5 minutes I (as an owner) would hire a $100/hr mechanic just to do code reads ALL DAY LONG. That’s $960 an hour for code reads. (12 x 5min each = 60min) I’d be happy to pay a mechanic $100 an hour if he was generating even half that $960. If said mechanic doesnt like doing a 5 minute code read for $100/hr then I’ll happily show him to the door and hire another. I’m interrupted in my work 20 times a day. Right now I have a 9" Bear Cat wood chipper in pieces, a 1956 Massey Ferguson TO35 tractor split in half, and a nissian truck and a Astro van sitting at the shop. And mechanic isnt even close to my official job title…I just happen to be pretty decent at it. All the above are started and all have been interrupted…it’s called life…if you can’t multitask life will be pretty dang rough on you.

29

The really funny thing is that autozone can do a free code read and they probably pay they’re people like $12/hr. Granted it’s not like they are master mechanics and it only points you in the general direction but a $12/hr worker can do a code scan and the business is still making money and still in business after decades. A shop, which is part of a dealership selling $20,000+ products and charging $80-100 an hour for service, filled with mechanics can’t be bothered to do the same. That’s pathetically sad.

30

An argument could be made that the manufacturer should be required to provide a method for the owner to read the diagnostic codes w/the purchase of the car. After all, the owner purchases not just the car, but all the software that comes with it. Which includes the diagnostic software.

31

I 100% understand what you’re saying George but technically you don’t buy the software. Software rights are almost always reserved and you’re only purchasing the right to use it. Even when you by a copy of Windows you aren’t technically buying the software. You are buying a license, or more simply, the right to use Windows Software. My argument would simply be that for $20,000 you should be able to tell me whether it’s serious or not when my vehicles software/computer says something is wrong.

32

It’s a mistake to put a service advisor in the middle of a mechanical repair simply because it will create a firestorm in most cases. Believe me; been there, done that more than a few times.
The customer enters and asks the SA for a quicky code read. The SA (most with little mechanical ability) tells the customer they have a code PO XXXX or whatever. The customer then:

  1. Leaves and replaces the part mentioned in the code. That doesn’t fix the problem so the customer comes back cursing.
  2. The mechanic is directed to replace the part mentioned in the code. Wash, rinse, repeat.

You can consider me a weasel if you wish, I do not care. I am confident in my abilities and the usual 2 week service backlog at the dealers where I worked and in my own shop tells me that both we and I must have been doing something reasonably right.

Since you choose to get a little crass I might ask what do you do in your current occupation when faced with a brake issue… (Cut and paste from your prior comment; quotation marks mine)

" I do all the vehicle maintenance for a 1400 acre retreat center that includes a huge fleet of vehicles for the 8-10 departments as well as all the farm and lawn equipment."

One thing you have not mentioned is how you’re paid. My guess is you’re getting per hour or a fixed salary. Those interruptions do NOT work on mechanics working flat rate. Period. It can lead to a homicidal rage.

Want to rip me? Go ahead; I can take it even if I do end up scarred for life emotionally.

33

@GEG
"I’ve since bought a code reader and it wasnt a cheap one. It doesnt just read the code it has a database and gives you the code and a couple lines about what the code means based on the make and model. I don’t even have to google the codes anymore. Unfortunately there were no codes with this issue. That’s partly why I think the ABS is unlikely."

You did buy a reader that specifically reads ABS codes? Specifically your Honda?

Most readers will read power-train codes, but not all (most don’t) read ABS and Body codes, including units with a data base. Even ones that read ABS codes won’t necessarily read all car Manufacturers’ codes. My local parts stores with readers can’t read ABS DTCs.

I don’t have a problem with dealers or shops that won’t read codes. That’s part of their business model. I too, have worked at car dealers. Many “service advisors” can’t advise anything. Some worked at 7-11 a week ago. Some are the owner’s kids that need “babysitting” or are earning college money.

I went to Plan B years ago. I have my own code readers and each of my family members has one in their cars in case I need to help/advise from afar (kids in college, etcetera). I keep Factory Service Manuals at home for each of my cars and use them along with online information.

It seems as though you finally figured a work-around, too, and bought one.
CSA

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$80 is a reasonable fee for diagnosing a check engine fault. “Code reading” is a service generally not offered so if you want it checked you have to pay the check-out fee.

Code reading is sometimes done as a courtesy for regular customers but service writers will avoid this, they get into trouble. If a service writer takes a $9000 diagnostic tool from the shop it is not available to the technicians, I have had to wait hours for a scan tool because there are not enough in the shop for 25 techs and 6 service writers. What is promised to be 5 minutes turns into 45 minutes.

After a service writer reads the code the customer will ask for the fault to be explained and what should be replaced. Service writers usually have no diagnostic training or experience, they can’t tell you what failed or if it is “safe to drive”.

The next question is how much if I need one of those? This means a trip to the parts department, back to the car for the VIN, back to the parts department, then to the shop for labor advice. Meanwhile estimates are piling up on the service writers desk and he is missing calls from his customers.

About ten years ago when I walked up to the service drive to talk to a service adviser during a busy period I overheard a customer say “I need an appointment? But I paid cash for this car!” (should we discriminate against those who finance?). I thought, I’m glad I’m not a service adviser, I couldn’t reason with these people.

36

My reader has read ABS faults in the past…not on my honda though. Never had ABS issue on my honda. It has read ABS sensor problems on a friends vehicle.

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@db4690, I just used $80 because that is what the dealer told the OP. Every dealer should set the price by what is reasonable and customary for their area.

@ok4450, I get what you are saying, but the service advisor should only have a simple code reader, not the shop system. The manufacturer could help here by designing a system for the dealers where the SA enters the code in the computer and the computer spits out the diagnostic procedure, not the possible suspect parts.

I think most customers facing the diagnostic procedure that they do not comprehend and do not have the necessary equipment for would be more willing to pay for the proper diagnostics and repair.

38

@keith, but what happens when the service advisor is relegated to becoming an an employee similar to someone from AutoZone, O’Reillys, etc? That “quick” 5 minutes to give the customer a quick scan will often lead to 10 minutes. Or 20. Once the conversation and questions begin the end may not be as quick as once thought.

In the meantime the phone may not be answered, other customers may get irate over waiting 5 minutes or more. Not to mention those flat rate mechanics who walk up to the counter to get an approval for a job or more info and the service advisor is nowhere in sight because he or she is out in the parking lot chasing a greasy pig.

And again, if the SA provides that code quickly then what?
The customer leaves and does it themselves or takes it somewhere cheaper? The SA should not be in the business of doling out free time and especially if word gets around. Next thing you know that SA is doing those 5 minute quickies 35 times a day and the service counter is piled up with irritated customers, unanswered phone calls, and POed mechanics.

And a mechanic is not going to want to get into some shaky diagnosis. What if the SA comes up with a crank sensor code and the customer authorizes that sensor repair which then turns out not to be the problem?

39

Nevada…if $80 is appropriate for plugging in a dongle and reading a LCD screen 30 seconds later then…DAMN…I should be reading codes. NO shop I have been to before this honda dealership charged anything near $80. I’m not ancient but I’m 40 so i’m not quite still wet behind the ears either. My GM Dealer before This Honda always did it free…but I never expected free from Honda. Like I’ve said 4-5 times now…it wasnt the cost as much as the fact they wouldn’t even do it. Paperwork I got when I bought this CRV specifically says to take it to a dealer immediately with an engine code. I did that and was treated horribly. If they don’t want to be there when they tell you to come in then they shouldn’t tell you to come in.

40

ok4450. I’m not sure how im paid has anything to do with anything or why I would have mentioned it but I’ll go ahead and tell you since it seems to somehow matter to you. I’m underpaid and my current job (hourly) is a choice because I happen to enjoy it. I do pretty much everything for two camp facilities. Electrical, plumbing, roofing, concrete, HVAC and on and on. I have licensing in Horse barn management, High Ropes and Tower Challenge courses, CPR/First aid/Rescue, Certified Pool and Spa Operator, Pyrotechnics license, Septic and drinking water license, Advanced Scuba and in the process of getting my General Contracting license. Before this I worked for Toshiba using my Executive Business degree and my Microcomputer Operations Degree and have a Genius IQ.

I was paid much much MUCH better at Toshiba and have been paid both hourly and salary over the years. As I said, the stress was high at Toshiba and I just realized one day that life was to short to be in the stupid rat race chasing money in exchange for my health. I made the decision to leave and take lower pay for something that I would enjoy and let me experience a HUGE range of jobs. While I get paid much less, I’m so much happier. I do side work in Property Management / Reality and have a Gemstone business that I also enjoy and makes up the difference in pay for the most part. I’d have never gotten all the great experience and licensing I’ve gotten while at Toshiba…I mean…how many people get paid to get licensed for pyrotechnics?

So if you somehow think what I’m paid, or how i’m paid, is somehow a reflection of my ability as your post implies, then there is most likely nothing I can do to change your view to the contrary. My ability (in any field), nor my choice of job need your validation. I will say though that, aside from your first post your other posts have been entirely unhelpful and argumentative and you get what you put out. I thank you for your first suggestion but your further argumentative posts were unnecessary.

My first post is exactly the truth…I’ve never seen both pads on one side worn to nothing while the other side remains new. I’ve seen one pad worn and one pad new on the same caliper many times but this one was new for me so I asked. Thanks go to those that were helpful…it is appreciated.