Howdy ya’ll! Greetings from KS.
I have more of a question than a problem. My dad has a '69 Ford truck that he’s had since day one.
It has a 360 engine. (Would that be 5.8 or 5.9? It’d have to be 5.9?) I’ve seen it in other models as well. My dad told me it’s based on a Windsor motor, that it’s basically a 351W. I have heard that in the early years, the windsors had poor heads from the factory. Sometime in the 1970’s he had chromoly(?) valves installed because the old ones kept burning up. Ever since then, he’s said the truck has run like a top. He’s had this truck 40 years and it has been the MOST reliable and faithful truck!!
Here’s my question: Is all that info correct about the 351W into a 360? What makes it a “360”? I once got into an arguement with a parts supplier. This leads to my second question which may actually lead back to question one.
I think my dad needed a new fuel pump one time. (He’s 83 years old, so I try to do all his mechanic work.) I called “Auto Parts” store and asked, “Do you have a fuel pump for a '69 Ford F-100?” He asked, “What engine?” I said, “360”. He replied, “A what?!” I said, “360”. He said, NOW MIND YOU HE WAS A YOUNG KID, “Ford never made a 360 engine.” I’ve learned to never say things like that because I usually end up wrong. I said, “For a few years they did.” He said rather irritated, “Ford DOES NOT make a 360 engine. There’s NO listing on my screen for a 360, only 6 cyl, 351C, 351W.” I said, “Okay, could you look it up under a 351W?” He said, “You won’t get the right fuel pump looking it up as a 351W.” I said, “They’re basically the same thing, I’m not quite sure what makes a 351W a 360, but they’re the same thing.” He CONTINUED to argue. I just told him to forget it b/c my dad was in the background getting aggravated that this guy wasn’t helping me. Well, long story short, it ended up being a fuel hose that became brittle. This was about 3 years ago and it has plagued my mind since.
Can you guys help me? Tell me all you know about these old engines. Was that kid actually right?
Let me know if you need more info.
Thank you all so much!
Howdy ya’ll! Greetings from KS.
360 is a big block Ford. See where the intake manifold is huge and the heads are thin at the top? The rocker cover goes over part of the intake manifold. The W (windsor) 351 is a small block like the 302. The Cleveland or its other version the modified (M) replaced the big block and its heads and intake were normal, not like the big block.
It’s not a surprise that he has no listing for the 360, 69 was probably the last year for it. Those computers and books are not all accurate. The 352, 360, 390 and 428 were the big block engines. There was an old 427 too.
The Cleveland and M engines were the 351, 460 and a 429, and maybe a 400 but I don’t remember. I think the boss 302 was a Cleveland block too but I never actually saw one. Young parts people really can’t be expected to know about old engines and would do well to not pretend to.
Found this at Wikipedia:
“The 360, of 360.7 cu in (5.9 L) actual displacement, was introduced in 1968 and phased out at the end of the 1976 year run; it was used in the Ford F Series trucks and pickups. It is a destroked 410 with a bore of 4.05 inches (102.87 mm) and the 352’s 3.5 inches (88.90 mm) stroke. 360s were also constructed with heavy duty internal components for truck use. Use of a standard 352/390 cam for use in passenger cars along with carburetor and distributor adjustment allowed the 360 to give performance similar to that of the 352 and 390 car engines. Rated at 215 bhp (160.3 kW) at 4200 rpm and 375 lb?ft (508 N?m) of torque @3600 rpm (2-barrel carb, 1968).”
Apparently, dad is incorrect. It’s not the same as a 351 Windsor. It’s a de-stroked big block engine.
Thank you mcparadise!
I go to wikipedia alot but for some reason didn't for this subject. Maybe I put more stock in all that everyone here has to say! The more I learned about engines growing up, the more this engine confused me. I do recognize that the heads were "funny" shaped, more flat like pleasedodgevan2 had mentioned. I guess looks are deceiving in a very spacious engine compartment and a motor. And I guess I'm like the old man but not as stubborn, we'll believe anything we're told (we trust too much) and it sticks. It'll be fun to hammer this out with the old man. To sum up: the 360 is really a 410? And it has a 352 stroke? Am I understanding that correctly? And a 352/390 camshaft was used for "high performance"? (The article said, "...to give performance similar to that of the 352 and 390 car engines") What is the advantage of "de-stroked", more torque? Bottom end rather than top end, correct? This is so exciting! Thanks for all (two of you) inputs.
BYW: The atricle was based on a 2bbl, his has a 4 bbl Holley. I have not yet seen one with his dashboard, is the explorers kinda rare? (not as in value of course) All I see are ranger edition dash and truth be told, I really like his best of all of these particular years.
Destroking an engine makes the displacement of the combustion chamber smaller (less cubic inches). You also get less power. Ford needed a different size engine and must have had excess building capacity at the 390 plant or some other thing I could make up. Who knows why the 352 wasn’t a good choice; it had a lot of power.
The 352 may have had different sized valves, meaning that they would rather make just the one size heads so as to avoid having to use too many different parts. Crankshafts and rods were probably forged and easier to stamp out in larger numbers. Heads are cast and used to take a longer time to make.
Those years were when all the companies were trying to economize by using common parts. So, the 360 was a 390 with different crank and rods. Easy way to save money.
The 360 was a FE series engine and really a good one also,I like a 351 Windsor-but I wouldnt swap a good 360 for a 351W, the old FEs are really an overlooked engine as Smokey Yunick said, a good 360 will easily produce 400 HP.The only real problem we had with FE series engines was plugged up oil return holes, causing them to burn oil-Kevin
All of the 352,360,390 family responded very well to camshaft,intake and carb changes. Not because the new parts were so good but the old ones were so bad.
So your Dads’ 360 had a habit of burning valves. And the fix was probably stainless valves. This is the area I would explore more. Take a look at what type valve came from FORD and what is being used by rebuilders.
It is odd that there was only one issue with the truck that turned it from a unreliable vehicle to the best he ever had.
Since your dad is dead wrong on the engine issue, it’s also possible that he’s mistaken about the burned valve issue due to the passage of time.
If the valves really did continue to “burn up” then that’s not necessarily a valve problem so much as someone possibly cranking the ignition timing up too much.
yes, he had the heads redone and it’s been great ever since. it may be unbelieveable that it has been his most reliable truck, but it has. it’s been in the family so long and was used in the 70s on camping trips where he took the whole family to all 48 states over the years. my son has taken a liking to this truck and is always wanting to ride in it. i look foward to begin restoration.
thanks again for all your unending knowledge!!