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Wish fullfilled

Previously I complained about the lack of U.S. production of the ion type of battery to be used in full electric vehicles. My complaint has been somewhat satisfied.



USA Today Business section hasa article about Nissan setting up a plant here in the U.S. for ion battery production (coupled with construction of complete vehicles) And Tesla has revealed plans (and the Feds providing funding) for modular ion baterry production. I guess the Tesla plant will make batteries for more than one model of vehicle.



Perhaps the “slide the old battery pack out and the new in” may be comming closer to reality.



Great. I need Some Stranger’s Used Batteries In My Car Like I Need Tap-Dance Lessons.

I’ve heard some people chew gum that they find under movie theater seats, too.

CSA

CSA,

I would think they are talking a system much like renting CD’s to watch a movie. You don’t get a new one, and you really don’t care who watched it last week. You switch it out anytime you refuel, with the added possibility of recharging it off the grid.

I am not at all sure we are ready for large scale electric cars, yet, but this is one possible scheme that might work or might flop, the market will tell.

I am sorry, but that comparison doesn’t make common sense. For one thing, batteries don’t carry diseases. For another thing, the battery swap system proposed would be more like swapping your empty fuel can for a full fuel can. Just like batteries, fuel cans have a limited useful life, and eventually need to be taken out of circulation and recycled. I don’t see the harm in swapping an empty fuel can for a full fuel can.

I’m Not Big On “Change” Or Sharing Car Parts, Gas Cans, Or Movies, Sorry.

The men in Charlie Company had been on maneuvers for 3 weeks when their Sargeant announces,
“I ve got some good news and some bad news.”
“First the good news.”
“Today we are going to change our underwear.”

The troops begin to cheer wildly.

“Now the bad news,” says the Sargeant.
“Jones, you change with Johnson. Andrews, you change with Adams…”

CSA

Fair enough. In that case, you can opt for more expensive options when the time comes. As long as you can afford to finance your eccentric nature, I won’t try to stop you. Those of us who learned to share in kindergarten will benefit from our reasonable adaptability.

How large are these battery packs? The one used in the current Tesla weighs a couple hundred pounds IIRC. The “slide the old one out and the new one in” may end up being something of an ordeal. If that’s the case there could be logistical issues in keeping these things on hand.

I may be reading into this incorrectly, but I think what you are envisioning is a gas station for electrics so to speak, where one would pull in with his discharged battery pack, you swap out battery packs and you’re on your way. Sorry if I interpreted it wrong in advance though.

They make them small enough to power an electric motorcycle. They make them both large and small.

FoDaddy, I think, based on other threads, that is the system we are talking about. For local driving, you could recharge after each trip, but for longer trips, some here have floated the idea of a battery pack exchange program.

There are practical matters to address before the idea of battery (or, fuel cell) swap-outs at “fuel service stations” will be accepted.

  1. Some people want to always maintain control and ownership of what they consider “theirs”. “Sir/Madam, will you wait X amount of time for your battery/fuel cell to recharge; or, will you swap?”
  2. Say, you are a “swapper”, and the user(s) before you abused the battery/fuel cell, and, as a result, it self-destructs…who’s financially responsibility? You? The previous user(s)? The Government’s insurance plan? Abusers have to be found out, and dealt with in some way; or, else, they will continue to abuse with impunity, freely, and often.
    SOLOMAN, where are you?!

Best Buy is now putting an all electric motorcycle on sale. Who’d have thunk.

We have all concentrated on the swap-out issue of the story,what about the domestic production side of the story? this is what interested me more.

Previously I had only been aware of a Korean company produging these batteries.

If that is indeed the case then there will definitely be logistical issues if this idea were become a nationwide affair. 1. As I mentioned these battery packs are large and heavy. With the current crop of electric vehicles, changing a battery pack is not something you can do on a whim or do easily. 2. Battery packs are quite expensive, most cost thousands of dollars. Keeping any number of these things on hand would be jolly expensive for the owner of the electric gas station. The liability expenses for having even just 5-10 of these battery packs around wouldn’t be cheap.

Speaking of liability, there’s definitely reason for concern on the user end as well. What if you’re swapped in a damaged unit that got by the person doing the inspections? There’s a chance that the end user could be stuck with a bill for a couple thousand dollars.

IMHO, a better idea would be to develop batteries and chargers that can charge a battery pack in say 5 minutes. Also great strides are going to have to be made in efficiency for the all-electric vehicle model to be doable, things like heat and AC tend to really reduce range, then there’s the thing with efficiency being directly related to speed, In a gas car thanks to multispeed transmissions, the car is usually most efficient around 45 MPH or so. In an electric car, the faster you go, the lower your range. Tesla was going to have two speed transmission in there roadster, but it proved too unreliable.

There are a number of companies working on these batteries, and the Chinese comapny YDP? will be the first out of the gate with AFFORDABLE ion batteries. However, Obama wants US industry to concentrate on clean, economical and affordable cars to justify all these bailout dollars. And that means battery development dollars.

At this stage we have Magna International of Canada working with Ford to build an electric car. Magna will provide the battery and motor, and Ford the rest. Magna has plants all over the world and will likely source the battery from China, India or Korea.

I don’t think this has ANYTHING to do with battery swapping. It has to do with maintaining our industrial base and making our own stuff. Maybe corporations have learned that if they outsource manufacturing to slave labor countries, pretty soon, there is no one with enough money to buy any of the products they produce…

Interesting info,what kind of PR or what chain of events is it going to take to make the public buy full electric? do you think there is resistance from the public towards full electric? will it take government mandates (visible or hidden) to get the public on-board with full electrics or are they already chomping at the bit for a full electric?

It will take another 3 or 4 generations of batteries until the charge density is high enough to equal today’s range with an internal combustion engine. The Prius is the current generation, and the range is so low that it isn’t even quoted; I suppose it might be 20 miles. I’ve seen quotes of 40 to 60 miles for the Volt before it goes to auxiliary power. If the range double with each new generation, it takes 4 new generations to reach 400 miles. I think 15 years is optimistic.

Yeah … and each car model will have a different battery shape and voltage.
I KNOW (with my luck), I’ll be low on Amps and the station I pull into won’t have my battery type in stock.

what kind of PR or what chain of events is it going to take to make the public buy full electric?

I am already tempted to buy an electric motorcycle for $8,000 from a company in California that already has them on the market. Unfortunately, I need to pay off some debt and improve my overall financial position before I can spend that kind of money. In my case, it is just a matter of time. Since my commute is 14 miles in each direction, I won’t even have to charge it at work, just when I get home at night on a regular household outlet.

I am torn between thinking the public is ready for this change in our personal transportation devices (fuel prices,green issues,perhaps a way to reclaim some market) and thinking people will say “no way” with this level of meddling. Will the public have to be told “take it or leave it” this is what the government allows us to offer.

Perhaps, the battery of tomorrow will be a metal, or plastic, case that stays with the car, and the stuff which has the charge is one, or two, liquids. When the liquids become discharged, you would pull into a “recharge station”, make connections to the tubes which transfer your discharged liquid(s), and replace them with fresh, charged, liquids. The “recharge station” would have on-site equipment to cleanse and recharge the discharged liquids. Then, the next customer would get these rejuvenated, recharged, liquids.
There’s more’n one way to flip a volt.