Okay, maybe some of you all can help me understand.
Up here in NH I see a lot of people driving pickups, jeeps, and other assorted SUV types. Granted, some of these people need dedicated 4 wheel drive and hauling power on a routine basis; but my guess is that many of them don’t need this regularly. I have thought many times of getting a jeep or a light p/u, and quite frankly I admit that a lot of it is because I want to feel/look/pretend that I am more outdoorsy than I actually am on a regular basis.
So why aren’t more car company’s trying to take advantage of the weekend backpackers/outdoorsy types who also want to hep out the planet? If Ford can make a Hybrid Escape that gets roughly 20-25% better mpg than the gas model, why aren’t car companies adding this option to jeeps, subarus, pick ups etc. Is it that they don’t think the market is there, or are there costs of reworking other aspects of the vehicle (to accomodate the hybrid stuff) that I am just not aware of?
Just wondering. Thanks all!
For one thing…I use a SUV for towing. Not too sure how long towing will with a Hybrid.
Since you live in NH like I do…many people here have long commutes. Mine is 35 miles each way. And it’s MOSTLY highway. The advantage with a Hybrid is in rural or stop and go traffic…NOT highway driving. Hybrids are very good if you have the right commute and drive a certain number of miles each year.
You will be seeing more in the next 10 years, as the ever-higher mpg requirements kick in. There are major costs associated with the hybrids, and those costs are pretty much a function of vehicle weight: heavy = big batteries = big $$. The vehicles you mention are typically on the heavy side. There is the Highlander hybrid and RX hybrid. I think diesels might be a better way to save fuel in this type of vehicle.
I think diesels might be a better way to save fuel in this type of vehicle.
Agree 100%…been waiting for one. Maybe in about 4 years when my 05 4runner reaches 300k miles one will be available that I’m interested in.
Consider also that there is a class action lawsuit against Honda, from owners of Honda hybrids who never were able to achieve anywhere near the gas mileage that was claimed for the vehicles. Honda is doing an out-of-court settlement with those folks. So, clearly this area of technology is far from perfect and/or hybrids are not for every person or every driving situation.
I believe that the technology has great promise and can be perfected (if perfection is ever actually possible in anything) with improved battery technology and by the substitution of diesel engines for the gasoline engines currently used in hybrids. And, for those who do mostly highway driving, a vehicle with a turbo-diesel engine is still probably preferable to any type of hybrid.
Carmakers are also going to small turbo gas engines - Mazda’s ‘Skyactive’ technology is intended to get hybrid-like mpgs out of gasoline drivetrains. Ford’s v6 ‘Ecoboost’ engine in the F150 also does pretty well, and can tow reasonable loads. So there are many ways to skin the ‘high mpg cat’…
“So why aren’t more car company’s trying to take advantage of the weekend backpackers/outdoorsy types who also want to hep out the planet?”
There’s the added cost for one, and there’s also the issue of hybrids not being especially good for the planet in the long run. The mining, refining, transportation, and assembly of the battery packs used in hybrids and electric cars isn’t the most ecologically sound process in the world.
They are making all they can sell…There is no shortage of them…If there is bottle-neck, it’s the Lithium batteries they all use…Also the inevitable cost of replacing those batteries must be subtracted from the money saved in fuel…
New drilling techniques has created huge new natural gas reserves…Look for more movement in that direction as N.G. now costs about 25% of what petroleum fuels do…That kind of price spread WILL move the market in that direction…
I’m still looking for the much more basic and economical models. Something like the VW Thing with a Perkins diesel. Very simple. Very reliable. Very economical.
Great maybe for specialty use so far but like Mike most people need a little more versatility in a vehicle unless you’re going to have three or four around for different puposes. You can’t pull a boat, snowmobile, or utility trailer with them, plus the over-all cost is higher. Now that I’m off the road, I mayber spend $20 a week for fuel so a 25% improvement will save me, what, $20 a month? Big deal. The market is just not there.
In the past, you could have one car such as a full sized Chevy wagon, and haul anything you wanted with it. When they started downsizing and with unibody, you pretty much need an SUV or pick up for anything other than passenger use.
My primary transportation is an old S-10 Blazer that is quite comfortable, reliable and safe. When needed an F-150 gets drug out. A smaller vehicle, albeit not a toy, i.e. Fiat 500 or Tata, would suit me. I particularly like the VW Thing’s taller seating, 4 doors and rear engine which makes power steering and brakes unnecessary. And if the windshield swings outward the ventilation would be great. And why does no one build a 2 stroke diesel engine? In fact, why do the vast majority of auto makers fall into the same rut? There is little significant difference in automobile manufacturer’s offerings.
They are becoming more available. There are 13 hybrid SUVs available, and over 30 hybrid vehicles in all classes. If you wait a few years, there will be more. And more small diesel cars, too. GM is bringing out small diesel cars next year. The manufacturers heard the clamor. It just takes time to respond to it.
I’ve owned two of the old small pickups, a '79 Toyota dn an '89 Toyota. I loved 'em. The '89 got 27 mpg. But even Toyota doesn’t make the small pickups anymore. I wish they would. I guess there’s not enough profit margin for them.
I agree with your point, Tuck, that there is a market for small pickups. The average homeowner needs a pickup to haul fertilizer, lime, the occasional load of landscaping ties, and take the rubbish to the dump. By the way, much of NH doesn;t have garbage pickup, and may of us are too cheap to pay for a private collection company, so that drives a lot of us to keep a pickup handy.
Perhaps we’ll get lucky and someone will offer a small pickup again, perhaps even in a hybrid. Small pickups are everywhere in Asian countries.
The Chevy Silverado 1500 hybrid starts at $39,265 and gets 20/23 city/highway mileage.
“The Chevy Silverado 1500 hybrid starts at $39,265 and gets 20/23 city/highway mileage”. Not much of a improvement if you ask me. My 97 4x4 5L autotrans 327,000 and sill running good. It used to get 20 -21 HWY 17-18 city. Now I get 18 HWY 14-16 city. I sill get 10-12 pulling my trailer.
I wish they would put a 6CLY Diesel in them. I would think if done right it would get 25-30 Hwy.
I have seen 5.3L 4X4 Chevy Silverado’s get 22 -25 HWY. 20-21HWY is common with these trucks.
Yep, that Silverado’s a good example of how big hybrids cost way more than the money you’ll save on gas. I’m sure you could get a good gasser 1500 for $30,000, and you won’t save over $9,000 on gas going from 15 mpg to 20 mpg. Assume 150,000 mile, you’ll go from 10,000 gallons to 7,500 gallons, 2,500 gallons X $3/gallon = $7,500. Not even breakeven.
Yes texases and lets not forget when you have 150000 miles on it. It’s going to worth about $10,000 or less.
I’ve done some research on Hybrids and the big problem with Hybrids are the batteries are extremely expensive! As anyone knows, batteries wear down over time and you have to factor in the climate you live in and the type of driving conditions and so forth. And another big thing is the proper disposal of batteries. There are lazy people out there who will dump car batteries and hybrid car batteries in a landfill which is hazardous to the environment (Isn’t there enough problems with plastic bottles, baby diapers, and other garbage that takes generations to decompose?) Oh yeah and all the gases released from garbage going into the atmosphere? I’m not willing to invest in a hybrid vehicle until the technology either gets cheaper to maintain or improves! I’m all about saving the environment and gas because this country really needs to end its dependence on foreign oil. If it weren’t for our dependence on it, we wouldn’t have to buy petroleum from middle eastern countries that despise us. The Electric cars are showing progress but the technology still needs some tweaking as well. The Chevy Volt was recently recalled because people were concerned about the battery possibly catching fire weeks after an impact from an accident. If it starts costing me 70 bucks to fill up my little Nissan Versa, I’m going to buy a Moped!
I’ve done some research on Hybrids and the big problem with Hybrids are the batteries are extremely expensive!
You didn’t do enough research.
While the batteries may be expensive there are a couple things you’re missing.
#1 - For the vast majority of Hybrid owners they last years and years and years. Many 10+ years.
#2 - You don’t have to replace the battery when it fails. The hybrid battery is actually made up of series of smaller batteries. Many places now will just replace the smaller battery that’s defective…This brings the cost WAY WAY down.
There are lazy people out there who will dump car batteries and hybrid car batteries in a landfill which is hazardous to the environment (Isn’t there enough problems with plastic bottles, baby diapers, and other garbage that takes generations to decompose?)
And you know this HOW?? While it MAY happen…I don’t think it IS happening.
The Chevy Volt was recently recalled because people were concerned about the battery possibly catching fire weeks after an impact from an accident.
It wasn’t a perception problem… Independent tests where showing that it WAS catching fire.
On the battery disposal problem - these are large items with likely high recycling value, so I don’t worry about them ending up in dumps.
On the fire safety issue, that’s for Li Ion batteries, and needs to be addressed for EVs and some hybrids that use them. Most current hybrids don’t.
But the basic issue, cost, is certainly true, it’s about breakeven, sometimes better, in good applications (smaller cars for commuting), not breaken for other applications (big vehicles, highway trips).